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Determining Doubling On A Jefferson Nickel

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Pillar of the Community
Rackster's Avatar
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4809 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2014  1:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I suppose this is true of any older, worn coin, but what are some of the tricks-of-the-trade when it comes to determining doubling on a Jefferson nickel?

I've seen the photos posted at several sites and the obvious doubling excluded, seeing subtle doubling even on MS coins is a challenge. Disregarding premiums/values, for the sake of finding varieties on older nickels, I'd like to hear what members are doing to find these varieties.

Thanks folks!!
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2014  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the obverse I find more doubling on the motto than on LIBERTY/date area.

On the reverse I find it more often on the USA than the EPU. But in this case it may just be the examples I've searched.

Watch for clashed die examples, doubled eyelids, struck through capped dies and other debris.

Laminations (Especially on Silver coins, war time nickels are worth at least melt)

Just a few things off the top of my head.
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Rackster's Avatar
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4809 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2014  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Coop - thanks for the tips. Regarding lamination errors; I found a 1945 P a few weeks back and the coin is oddly yellowish with lamination issues. I just assumed it was an unfortunate situation. Are these laminations desirable?
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
872 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2014  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Take a look at the listings here,
http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieti...ls-vscid-17/
Some may have pics, others may not.

These are pretty cool !
Determining-Doubling-On-A-Jefferson-Nickel


Determining-Doubling-On-A-Jefferson-Nickel


Determining-Doubling-On-A-Jefferson-Nickel



additionally google
CONECA Master Listing
Edited by Collector-Corner
05/13/2014 12:19 am
Pillar of the Community
Rackster's Avatar
United States
4809 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2014  07:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Gary - I use the NGC site regularly for the listing and the pictures. Looking at the examples you posted, I'm pretty sure that I'd detect the EPU spread in the devices and probably the LIBERTY, star and date. However, on a circulated specimen, I'm thinking only the EPU would be readily detectable with moderate wear where as the LIBERTY, star and date would be unlikely.

As you know, AU specimens for coins decline with age, so looking for doubling varieties becomes challenging. I see folks listing RPMs that look like blobs to me, but perhaps they've lined up markers. As a collector, unless the blob is for a rare variety that would still fetch a price, the coin is worth the going date/mint value in my mind regardless of markers.

Jefferson nickels appear more challenging in identifying varieties. Especially past years where the mints really pushed the life of the dies. The washout and traillines make serif identification or device thickness truly challenging, hence my request for member tricks-of-the-trade. It's interesting to me to see how quickly your eye or Coop's lock into the subtle tells. Time and experience are essential, but a good operating theory is also needed.

Thanks for chiming in!

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Collector-Corner's Avatar
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 Posted 05/13/2014  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, to tell you the truth, I have decided, since the capital is still flowing, that I will buy BU specimens on items I want to look for variety and errors.
I'll pay the premium knowing that I have a slightly better chance of pulling something out of the rolls, bags, mint or proof sets.

Its kind of weird, I can take 5-10 sconds to look over a coin and if their is something "different" with that coin, I almost immediately see it. Its probably due to my microscope setups.
I paid to make sure that I would not miss much, and honestly? The setup(s) probably have already paid for themselves. I cannot being to tell you all the RPM's, and DDO's I have found with the setup. It has to be a comfortable setting, and I have to remember to blink alot.

As for the older coins, I understand about the die wear. That's why I stick to BU coins. When the finds come, not only are they easier to identify, but they are bound to have a better value. You have to remember I am in it for the business, and I am one to tell myself - If I cannot sell it to myself, there is no way I am going to sell it to someone else. Thats why I go over the edge to prove to the customer - and myself - building confidence for both that the item they see is the real deal and not a "blob".

Jefferson nickels and Washington quarters to me see cramped on the rim, and that can add to the frustration of finding anything that could be a DDO, and expecially a DDR. Kennedy halves are up there as well.

I buy my stuff from about 10 different sources and I am blessed. I have my fair share of varieties and errors, and finding good sources and sticking with them is paramount. Most of the pople I deal with don't care to search for varieties or errors - they just want to move the stuff they have. Thats cool, I don't mention anything about it to them and all is good. they are Happy to make the sales, and I am happy with the results.

I honestly don't have a good solid answer for ID'ing coins that are less than AU, and the markers being torn away by die abrasion or Machine Doubling. In some cases, its simply finding one marker and the variety and that would have to do.

Good luck on whatever way your advanture wants to take you.
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Rackster's Avatar
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4809 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2014  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Gary - no silver bullet but I guess I knew that deep down. I agree with your strategy (buying high grade) and tactics (investment into technology). Proof is obvious with the coins you post images of. Between you and Coop (with support of the rest of the members), interest in varieties seems to be building.

I suppose that I have the means to delve into acquiring hire grade coins, provided the channels are solid, but I'm enjoying the hunt. I've a couple MS level varieties acquired by CRH-chance. It'll have to do right now as I'm enjoying the hunt. Cents are easier to type, but following Deb's efforts show that it really takes a team of collectors to dial in on a few specimens or conclude that they are a new variety.

Great stuff nonetheless. I'm sure that nickels will get easier, but thy do seem to be the more difficult of the two to ID. Coops tips are consistent with my arbitrarily established rules-for-viewing. I'll hone these with time - but perhaps 4-6 seconds is a ways out there!
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
Pillar of the Community
Rackster's Avatar
United States
4809 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2014  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Coop! Good examples and I'm happy to say that I would detect most (all?) of them on AU specimens on up and even lower grades for some. VF level coins though would be very difficult for the subtler items at the very least. I'm always looking for AU+ specimens so if they align with known varieties I stand the chance to get lucky.

Quarter of the way through a box and the one potential variety is likely just a worn coin and a later stage die. More investigation needed but having the images from both you and Gary are helping to train the eye. I was once an inspector so I like to think I have some good old habits that I can couple with the images to get some better results. But an investment into technology is needed to assist the aging eyes.
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