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1834 Libertad Is This Real Or Fake ?

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New Member

United States
4 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2014  4:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JTSfastguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
hey just got this coin was wondering from some your expertise

is it real or fake minted in mexico city or spanish mint?

1834-Libertad-Is-This-Real-Or-Fake-?
1834-Libertad-Is-This-Real-Or-Fake-?
1834-Libertad-Is-This-Real-Or-Fake-?
1834-Libertad-Is-This-Real-Or-Fake-?
1834-Libertad-Is-This-Real-Or-Fake-?
Edited by JTSfastguy
05/17/2014 4:43 pm
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jfransch's Avatar
United States
1801 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2014  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a Mexican 8 reales struck at the mint at Guanajuato, Mexico. Common date, looks legit at first glance. Not really my field of expertise but I see nothing in the picture that makes the hair on my neck stand up. Nice coin. This type of coin is called a "resplandores" or "cap and ray" coin.
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keepcalmandcoinon's Avatar
United States
865 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2014  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keepcalmandcoinon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yup looks authentic to mee. Looks like a nice example of a circulated 8 Reales Cap and rays.
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2014  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A common issue for which nothing jumps out (at least to me) visually as a red flag. However, the 1834 Go was widely forged at the time. Riddell lists ten different known contemporary counterfeits, some of which will not be off much by weight. An accurate determination of its specific gravity would be your best recourse to authentification.
Colligo ergo sum
New Member
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2014  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JTSfastguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate all your feed back guys ! How much should it weight if authentic ?
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2014  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How much should it weight if authentic ?


27 grams would be the target - it'd be a starting point to know, but that may not be in and of itself a definitive measurement in this particular case.
Colligo ergo sum
New Member
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2014  10:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JTSfastguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sounds good thank you I just bought a scale to see should be here in a few days

do you know any company's that will authentic type of coins like this ? trying to put a value on it
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2014  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JTSfastguy I see very little chance that this one would be one of the counterfeit varieties. However, SG is always advisable. Check the scale accuracy to make sure it is not one of the digital ones with a 2% plus or minus tolerance based on total weight. The dies at this mint were prepared from nearly complete hubs so all that was added to the die after hubbing were minor fine details (like cactus pad spines etc.) and of course the last digit of the date and the assayer's initials. The counterfeit coins made from the stolen dies and or hubs usually have a VERY poor looking small 4 in the date. I own 42 1834 Go 8Rs covering many distinct die varieties and 40 of those are counterfeit. So far I have a high 4, a tilted 4, two double cut 4s and a small slightly low 4 on a badly rusted die. The other counterfeits for the date tend to be a rather typical grouping of debased strikes from fantasy dies like the ones seen in Riddell.

Let us know how the SG comes out.
New Member
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2014  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JTSfastguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry what don't mean by sg? Also I weight the coin on digital scale came out to 26 grams
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2014  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sorry what don't mean by sg? AlsoI weight the coin on digital scale came out to 26 grams


As in 26.0 grams? That'd be a smidgen light.

SG = specific gravity. There are several sites on the web that will walk you through the process of mesuring this. But you need a scale with fine enough graduation. Whole grams won't get it done.
Colligo ergo sum
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2014  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lucky Cuss Just wondering what your avatar picture represents? I have two items that are similar but since I love the motif I was just checking if there is another item I should be going after.

The two I know of are first a recently produced bullion round and second a colorized Bakelite token from the 1880s.
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2014  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Lucky Cuss Just wondering what your avatar picture represents?


Not any real, actual coin, so far as I know, if I understand the thrust of your question. Just a generalized rendition of the "cap & rays" design I happened to come across, thought it'd represent my interest well enough.

I should add that with respect to this genre, I'm very late to the game, but still feel I already know more than 90% of the dealers who dabble in these, but on the other hand only 10% of what I really need to know, and probably only 1% of what you know. My goal is to raise all those percentages as time goes on, without making too many expensive mistakes.
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
05/23/2014 2:39 pm
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2014  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Lucky Cuss - good to know it was a drawing.
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