Update On Gnl Book On Counterfeits - The Good News

One idea that I received when speaking with dozens of dometic/international coin dealers during its production is that all the GNL varieties should be on two CD's placed into the book (ie. ,rear slip cover). This way at the coin show when in another city or during traveling they would not have to carry a 10# Encyclopedia and can study the coins with their light PC. This was part of the plan along with including the typical smaller pictures for each off-metal Class 1 specimens (most significant collectible pieces) only being in the book.
It was actually these two CDs that we sent to Stacks/Bowers so they could properly catalog EFFECTIVELY the Mike Ringo Collection of CC8R's rather than just bulk lot this group which would have been obviously a disgrace to this great collector! Its worked out PERFECTLY!
Specifically - The two CDs would have all of the Classes (1-4) so they can be zoomed/viewed IN DETAIL using the PC which BTW already has been finalized/done. This was also envisioned to keep the price down ~ $100-125 since there are 1000+ photos.
It is weird - most people when they INITIALLY hear about this book they say - why would I pay $100 ... I do not collect CC8R Portraits? Its only the tip of the iceberg in its contents! A quick 60s scan of the TOC will immediately reveal this fact. We knew this when we started writing that this was a book NOT solely for the CC8R collector but a book for anyone owning a Portait 8R and scratching their head and saying "IS THIS REAL"?
The book of course also explores the Sheffields and the Birmingham Tower Mint ... at a Heritage auction I purchased a Sheffield from the Eric P. Newman Collection in a TPG in Mint State since with time I suspect the Sheffield's value will exceed the regals ... as we see with Machins Mills Coppers manufactured in Newburg, NY and currently listed in the U.S. Red Book Book and comparing these to the halfpence of regals of the 1770-1775 issues from The Royal Mint (being only one example - also the GII 1/2d issues). Today its apple and oranges on these prices ... so what's the BIG CONCERN with Sheffields and Class 2 Debased Silver China Market CC8R Issues in TPG's? Probably nothing ... and tomorrow is another day in numismatics.

John Lorenzo
Numsimatist
United States

@jcmworld:

I am a little confused because I think we are basically agreeing on this topic




If people have limited budgets, less they are inclined to pay >100 dollars for a book which does not cover their collecting field, which is why I was arguing for exactly what you are stating in the second sentence, i.e., lowest possible price for widest dissemination.

@Colonialjohn:




Again, what I was talking about: you may look at a book in the 250-300 dollars price range, 600+ pages, minutely listing each and every known CC 8 Reales. And who might want to buy it at that price? Only people collecting CC8R.

On the other side, you have a much smaller book at a much lower price that introduces the reader to the "contemporary counterfeit theory", along with convincing data and illustrations on how to detect and discern these coins, plus a classification system. Who might be interested in this? Not only CC collectors, but anybody collecting, researching, dealing in the series covered, from pillar dollars to Mexican Republic. It even appeals to non-numismatic readers like economic historians, because the issue of restriking other nations' coin is quite a story! You get a wider client base, you get many people interested, you get your theory disseminated and the discussion going.

For those further interested, you have the catalog part - be it in form of CDs in the books's back, be it as a loose leaf collection, be it as an online site. This can be produced, calculated and distributed separately, and it can be updated at low cost.

What about a pre-pay?

GNL gets the money upfront and applies it to the publication costs. A discounted cost if the money is sent up front. This would reduce risk to GNL, and benefit early buyers.

Bob, we met last year. I trust you. I saw the "paste up" and do not want an abridged version.

First thanks to everyone who has replied with answers to my poll.

It seems that there is no one perfect solution which makes sense to everyone but that there is some interest even if minimal for every option. (I actually have the loose-leaf version I made for my own use which I personally find helpful to have as a backup to my laptop. It is an older finicky machine that has a mind of its own.)

I think it is best to provide all options for anyone interested. This is most easily done if I directly control printing which is easy on a one by one basis if they are pre-paid.

Regarding my initial post about the ANS rejection. It has come to my attention from multiple sources that some of what I said earlier was based on incorrect information and that it sounds like sour grapes. So I need to correct the record because for me the do it yourself approach will be the least expensive way to get the word out to the most people.

The corrections I must make start with the following quote which was and is NOT factual based on what I have heard recently.




The NJ coppers book is from what I have been told recently actually selling very well and the fortunes of ANS appear to be bright. This is 180 degrees opposite to earlier emails I had received. I am at a loss about this disparity but I am researching this for myself.

I may differ somewhat on who would want to buy the book. I wrote it with a general audience in mind NOT just counterfeit collectors but also people who wanted to AVOID counterfeits and people who were just curious about the historical factors behind forgery. This is one of the first attempts since the 1830s to discuss and and evaluate the topic of full weight and correct alloy silver counterfeits. I know this is the first attempt at finding a method of positive identification of such coins.

I really do believe rejection as a single format hard cover book is the best thing that could have happened because I can provide any format a reader wants at a lower cost. I harbor no ill will whatsoever against ANS or its employees and I am VERY thankful that the plagiarism was discovered. I plan to address the clearly factual errors made with Mr. Meadows.

The second issue where I made a mistake was actually an inference on my part as follows:




I did not intend to imply that Mr. Hoge departure was anything other than something he planned and which was in no way forced upon him. His retirement is well deserved. I in retrospect think it would have been better to say something like:




My inference rested on the fact that all of the earliest contacts I had received indicated that Mr. Hoge at ANS was aware of and that he was not only familiar with but supported the project. I was told that we had a go to proceed. When I personally called ANS after editing was completed to make the final submission, I was surprised to hear that Mr. Hoge was gone. In that brief phone call, Mr. Meadows seemed to know nothing about our book project at all. It was as if I was calling completely out of the blue about a project no one was aware of. Up to that time, I had been led to believe that the way was clear - all green lights - from Mr. Hoge. Having no reason to suspect the source of that data was wrong I made an incorrect inference.

I do think our book can proceed essentially as is with changes necessitated by the ANS report and my concerns about the removal of some materials. I am in the process of vetting for myself every statement in the book that is not absolutely common knowledge and I am checking all footnotes and the bibliography to completely eliminate any potential charges of plagiarism or cherry picking. I am focused primarily on the portions that I did not write entirely personally but I am checking all of my own materials as well for things that may need better citations. I have been working about 10 hours per day on this effort and I estimate it can be completed in 2 to 3 months.

I am truly hopeful that the final form will be complete before the US-Mexican Numismatic Association meeting in Scottsdale, Az which will take place October 16-18, 2014. I am scheduled to speak on the topic of eight-reales counterfeits.

So with these necessary modifications I once again want to express my thanks to all who have written and I would ask that those who have read the post but not replied would do so even indicating no interest.

Dos Mundos You are correct if you assume the operation was housed




The Gimbernat report dealt with state-of-the-art factories in the Birmingham area. It is historical fact that Boulton created the first modern factory system in that area and there were numerous imitators. So a factory setting allows the method to make complete sense in 1796. Such a visible operation would have had to been more of less protected to exist so openly as Gimbernat pointed out.

Make that 100.

I would add to the above a no-nonsense raw intelligence when it comes to coins (and people) plus a welcome lucidity in use of language. Hopefully no -lawyers- will become involved.

As to cost and format, I'll go with whatever consensus arises. I own half a dozen of the portrait-8's; not enough to call a collection, but sufficient to justify a good book on how to keep the -real- in 'reale'.
ps- keep the cute bits. They add personality.

Thank you to all of the members here and elsewhere that have expressed support for the book project. It helps to know there is such great support for a project no one has yet seen.

I have made significant progress with Amazon as the publisher. I am finalizing plans to have them do the book. There will be several formats available and prices while not finalized totally appear to be the best available with all types under $200. There should be some type available for everyone's pocketbook.

There will be a black and white and a full color version made available in hard cover. The Black and white version will be one volume - the color version will be divided into two volumes because of printing parameters which limit the size of books with color photos to under 430 pages. I am still exploring whether a library cloth binding with a dust jacket is preferable to a glossy printed cover with what would be the dust jacket as the front and back of the book.

Hard cover copies will be issued as limited numbered first editions. The way Amazon works Hardcover editions will have to be ordered from the author - they are print on demand and only available from the person who established the account with Amazon so I will be doing that. I will provide a new PO address for the entity I am forming to handle that. I am investigating an LLC set up. The color edition will be limited to somewhere between 100 and 200 copies with the black and white more flexible in numbers.

The hard cover versions will include disc copies of the photographs of all of the coins in the book and duplicates we are allowed to publish. These have to be added after Amazon prints the book - they do not do discs. So a time delay and cost increase will be involved because of two mailings.

There will also be two paperback versions a black and white single volume and a two volume color version. Both of these will be available as on demand products which can be ordered directly from Amazon. The color paperback will likely be PROHIBITIVELY expensive but in order to offer a full color Hardbound book there needs to be a paperback version produced simultaneously.

Finally there will be a e-book version available for Kindle both black and white and color - which appear to be at the same fixed price unlike the paperback.

If all goes as planned and I hit no further snags all three types will be available in the third week of October in time for the US Mex NA annual meeting in Scottsdale, AZ.

The preliminary submission for format and size check was accepted last week and 4 issues (all technical) were identified that have been corrected. I expect to resubmit next week and to have a proof print ready in about 35 days.

Once I approve the proof - the paperback will be ready to order for immediate delivery. The Hardback will be available for immediate order.

For anyone interested in publishing a book - it gets VERY TEDIOUS. There are so many different issues that it has been driving me nuts. Electronic publication may be easy but you need to get everything just so. Font, margins, page format, size page count etc. etc. If I was a lot younger or a lot more computer literate it would be easy. But I have been getting a lot of help from my 12 year old granddaughter lately and she is a wiz on computers. Every day she finds some other thing I need to learn to do. She is also the only one of my grandchildren who shows a real interest in coins and history. Who knows - she may be my replacement before long. Swamper Kaylah - not much of a ring to that. She has already designed a logo for business cards.