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 Replies: 22 / Views: 7,913 |
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New Member
18 Posts |
Well at least the obverse dies that were used for it... Hello all 1st post and glad to be here. Been lurking for awhile now Anyway picked this up at a show Sunday due to the fact it was the nicest sharpest lustrous 1921 s Morgan I'd ever seen and anytime I can get a PL obverse at no extra cost it's gravy train.. couldn't wait to VAM it and knew a little about the famed proofs but no mention of it at VAM world except a suspected VAM. I believe Breen examined it and noted a few markers and I got on HA and compared the markers to my coin.. so here it is:angling die scratch through top of 1 and 2 die polish spots under upper fold of cap.. date placement seems correct.. sorry for pic quality as I have more and better quality pics but couldn't upload due to size and such. Hope these work... thoughts opinions? Dave?    |
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New Member
23 Posts |
First off NICE COIN! After reading your post I went looking for info on the 21s zerbe proof. Problem is there isn't much info out there and its cloudy at best. I think you might be on to something here. If there is only 4-5 of these known than maybe one day they will get it sorted out at VAM world and this might be a better find than you think. I'll let the experts weigh in. Hopefully somebody has some insight on 1921 s zerbe proof |
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New Member
 18 Posts |
Well I guess there are no experts on this coin. Understandably so being that there's only 4-5 reported... I guess it's better than getting tag teamed on here saying I'm as crazy as rare tim..If you guys could see my coin in hand razor sharp frosty devices contrasted with near flawless mirrored fields and an almost perfect rim. Excuse me whilst I go clean up the drool puddle.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
I am sure I know 3 people that own 1 or more of the Zerbe coins. Your photos are not clear so I cant make out the pups. I would be more then happy to show it to Larry Biggs, and others. The Zerbe proofs are just that, the dies where used on normal strike coins as well from my understanding.
Feel free to contact the CCF site folks "MOM" and DAD, and let them know I am OK with messages from you. On The Coin Community you need 50 posts to send and receive messages from members.
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New Member
18 Posts |
Hey I appreciate the you guys taking the time to reply. I hope no one is confused about what I'm saying here. I am referring to the SAN FRANCISCO Zerbe proofs which are A LOT rarer than their Philadelphia counterparts. Anywho, here are some hopefully clearer pics so maybe I can get a clearer and/or more reply to said topic. This goes out to the whole VAM community... Thx.    |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
I'm with Twohawks on this one, Larry Briggs is the guy you want to see this coin, Jeff Oxman may also know, but I do know Larry has handled the Zerbe Proofs in the past. Twohawks is a stand up guy, and you can trust him with the coin. Though we've not met personally, Twohawks is a friend of my good friend that is quite well known in the VAM community. If this is a Zerbe, what a find - from hundreds to thousands in a blink of an eye! Keep us posted on the resolution of the identity of this most interesting coin. It sure appears to have PL surfaces from these photos, at least a whole lot more so than the average 1921-S Morgan. Fingers crossed for you this is a Zerbe Proof 2-Sides. P.S. Set up a free account on Photobucket, you can upload very large images there and it's quite easy to insert them into posts here at CCF. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
Larry Briggs and I see each other or talk on the phone about 2 times or more a week. He lives about 90 miles from me, last week we met at a mid way point. The 1870 rotated, laminated pick-axe cent I posted here, was his until I bought it from him last week. Your coin looks to be a hands on type of coin to confirm. Also NGC is not the company that you would what to have attribute it as they are far from the top of the food chain as far as in the "trust factor" with-in VAMMING. The best part of living in Ohio is I live 112 miles from Leroy Van Allen, 120 miles from J Roberts, 90 miles from Larry Briggs and 89 miles from Brain Raines. This makes showing coins in hand "Way easy" and you would be hard pressed to find a better group of experts to confirm a Morgan dollar. Edited by twohawks
08/26/2014 09:13 am
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New Member
18 Posts |
Well touche.. thanks for the reply guys. Oddly enough I reside in Ohio too. And oddly enough there is a coin show in columbus for 3 days this weekend. The annual Dublin show and it would be awesome to meet any of you or VAM experts.. I might b there Fri Sat Sun! |
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New Member
18 Posts |
Uddate: talked to Larry he couldn't authenticate because he's only handled Philadelphia mint Zerbe dies and never even heard of a Zerbe from San francisco cisco. I'm back to square 1
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New Member
18 Posts |
David bowers book says Zerbe wouldn't have accepted such pieces as proofs and would of Balked at them. And it's all a bunch of fantasy stuff out there. IDK but I read on p.c.g.s and heritage auction that there IS San Francisco Zerbes but they are very very rare. So it will most likely be an enigma for now
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New Member
23 Posts |
I just read in WAYNE MILLERS silver dollar textbook that 1921S WAS an authorized branch mint proof. I think what you need to do is find out who actually owns one of these and contact them. Easier said than done right. Well maybe one day someone will. The odds of someone on this website owning a half million dollar coin is slim to none. Bout like someone owning a 1913 V nickel. But hey you never know. Maybe someone will see this post and come forward. Fingers crossed for you bub |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I just read in WAYNE MILLERS silver dollar textbook that 1921S WAS an authorized branch mint proof. Wayne Miller is wrong. The Philadelphia Zerbes weren't "authorized," either. |
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New Member
23 Posts |
He also included the 93cc 79o as definite AUTHORIZED branch mint proofs along with the 21 san francisco. Then there was the NOT authorized but definitely proof category which I believe included the 21P, as Morgan had a side business at that time supposedly. It seems all the EXPERTS differ on this subject. Breen states that a REAL zerbe proof had an S mintmark. Its all hearsay at this point I guess
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
I have seen and held 3 real Zerbe Morgans. From what I can see in the photos the quality of strike is not present. A PL 1921 S is what I am leaning too. Many of the so called "Zerbe dollars" are coins struck from dies prepared from the same hub not the same working die. working Philly die's where not shipped to San Francisco to be used there after Philly was done with them.
This notion that worked dies where moved from one mint to another has no paper trail. The 1900 O/cc dies that where shipped to New Orleans had never been used in C City. Or more to the point no confirmed PUP's can be found on pre 1893 CC coins back.
I have bounced this coin and subject off 4 people that I would put them in the top 5 people that would know. They all came back as a "NO".
Leroy Van Allen is where you should send the coin next in the chain, he is the odd man out of the top 5 and he would have to see the coin so me sending him an E Mail would not help you.
I am sure between Super Dave and I we can get you his P O Box number, just ask.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
Leroy Van Allen is where you should send the coin next in the chain, he is the odd man out of the top 5 and he would have to see the coin so me sending him an E Mail would not help you.
I am sure between Super Dave and I we can get you his P O Box number, just ask. I'm thinking bounce it off John Baumgart or Crae before bothering Leroy; in fact, this topic might be worth throwing up on VAMworld in its' entirety. |
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New Member
18 Posts |
I think VAM world is a GREAT IDEA! Would one of you guys be able to do this task for me? Not that I am too lazy to do it, it's just that I had a heck of a time getting pics up on this site that I wouldn't even know how to attempt such a thing. |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 7,913 |
Posted 08/22/2014 08:12 am
