Three Things...

Cladking, please know that I have a good deal of respect for you, and have always enjoyed reading your posts. You seem to have a good handle on the modern coins, and I have learned more than a few things reading what you write, but this time......

I don't personally mind the modern era as it really has little to no effect on the coins that I buy and sell. For the vast majority of dealers it does, and I understand their complaints.
However, what my problem is boils down to "hype". Yes some modern coins are truly rare. The no mintmark coins, the no "S", the mules, even the major errors. They have a value based simply on demand and limited availability.
The other modern coins that have jumped are the no brainers. The Buffalo Dollar, the Prestige sets, Silver Proof sets, they all have a relative limited number and are special in their own right.
State Quarters and the others minted in the hundreds of millions do not share this same rarity. Anyone remember the high prices the DE and PA quarters were getting in late 1999? Today both can be bought at $25 a roll.
Anyone remember the waffle coins? Last year they fetched $1000 today, less than a hundred.
Anyone remember the Wavy steps? Again, I could list hundreds of this type of coin. Modern coins rely on Hype to bring real money. They rely on speculators. A true rare coin does not need hype to inflate the value.
There is a huge difference between true rarity and hype. The basic reason for all of this hype. Modern coins are boring. We have suffered through the most mediocre designs in our short history. No one gets excited over the 1984 Roosevelt found in change. Same goes for all the modern issues.

With the exception of the GSA sales, when have you seen the classics fall from grace? Even through all the melting of the 80's the classics stayed. If you buy right, any classic coin will at least hold most of its value.

Short of very few exceptions, there are not many single modern coins that can make this claim. Most have spiked for a very short time and fallen from grace.
Why is it that you see no dealer/collector making excuses for the classics? Could it be that there is no need?

You don't need a microscope to see why Saints have value. You don't need ebay hype to sell them. Long before the 1933 made headlines, these beautiful coins sold day in and day out.

100 years from now, the Saint and Morgan will still be on top.

NationalDealer: I've enjoyed your posts and don't believe any are just
mindless modern bashing as is often the case. However many of your best
points are based on nothing but perspective and new collectors do not
share the same perspective as most of we old-timers. You may find 1984
coins in circulation to be boring but this is largely simply because you've
barely looked. Take the quarter for instance. The rims were lowered on
this date and are virtually non-existent. This is the only date like this
though the '85 has very low rims. Because the rims aren't there to protect
the coin from collisions it is very difficult to find this date without
major scratches and gouges. Even AU examples tend to have serious
scratches. Finding these in nice attractive condition is very tough
since few rolls were saved and even the mint set coins tend to be marked
up. The quarters used two different reverses in this year; type "c" and
type "d". All mint set coins are type "c" so even though the type "d"
is common in circulation it is rarely seen better than XF and nice at-
tractive coins are scarce in any grade.

1984 cents are perhaps even tougher. Nearly 60% of the mint set coins
have severe corrosion problems and the roll coins are little better. Even
clean specimens tend to have plating flaws which are bound to lead to
corrosion in the future and are unattractive in the present. Nice gem
examples of these are scarce but since people aren't looking they are
not aware of it.

'84 dimes are in far better grade than mere chance would seem to dictate
and one is left to speculate that there was something about these that
cause them to wear better than other dates. The half dollars are both
difficult to find in nice attractive condition.

We may find these coins boring but they have some of the "busiest"
designs of all US coins. They have been minted in an era that has seen
some of the greatest changes in human history and in an era that has
seen the greatest increase in wealth and standards of living ever. The
computer and space flight have become mundane during this period.

All US coin designs have met with lack of enthusiam and outright disdain
when they were issued. While such an attitude may be more appropriate now
than in the past it is history which will judge these and it is history
which these designs are fast becoming.

While I can certainly agree that some of the "shooting stars" have no
staying power and are run up in price only because holders wish to
profit, this applies to things like errors and is much less common in
modern times than it was in the old days. It is less common now simply
because so many people simply automatically dismiss any coin minted
after 1964. Remember the bie errors and the bar nickels? There have
always been traps for those who are unwary but writing off moderns be-
cause there may be some traps is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Perhaps my posts really are a little off topic and I do agree with
the main point that one can lose a lot of money in this hobby by
speculating or by throwing money at the latest thing to come down
the pike. But the fact remains that there are more things in heaven
and Earth than many of us can comprehend and that we each have diff-
erent perspectives and beliefs.

And time does fly.

I've learned a lot from reading this thread and pondering the various viewpoints posted. Thank you to all who posted and gave your viewpoint freely, you advise IS valuable to me.


I did a search on ebay for speared bison and viewed seven of them.
The photo's were all so poor quality, you could just as well shut your eyes and hope the seller was telling the truth.

I did see one phote that used an unusual lighting color and angle to bring up the spear. The gold color photo
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI...ageName=WDVW
The seller remarks: "The spear is difficult to scan but you can be assured it's there."

Just as well someone can see it. LOL

Listed Price ranges from $1.25 to a "buy it now" of $399.99.

My Humble opinion: If you found one of these in change (5 cents) it would be worth keeping. Even if you just had to have one, $1.25 (25 x Face Value) would be a reasonable buy.
BUT anyone paying $399.99 has more dollars than sense. There is only one direction the price will go from $399.99, and it's not up.

Hi Errorcoins

You are in fact correct error coins do exist and they are real !! one of the problems that I see here is a difference of opinion on exactly what an error is ?

it would seem that some believe a crack die to be more of a variety than an error ,I fall into this catagory.

I use this method to determine my definition,, what is accepted and has maintained an error statis for many years? the 55 DDO lincoln,72 double die,39 double monticello and the list goes on .

So is it dis honest to call die cracks errors? This is where opinions get heated !!!

Please know that I would defend your choice to collect these coins, I also collect lincoln varieties,most have little or no value !! although there are exceptions where a small premium is attached ,70-S small date ,60 small date ,these coins are not considered errors,as are the many many die crack varieties,filled die,struck thru's that I have pulled from circulation of all denoms ,,are they cool ?I think so or I would not bother with them,, are they errors? not by any stretch of the imagination.

Rick

I don't understand why we continue to have this arguement every 2 or 3 weeks. It seems futile to me. ErrorCoins likes the myriad of Bison varieties and Old_Dan thinks that the Bison varieties are worthless. I have completely summed up each posters position on the issue without being offensive, but we continue to have the same thread over and over, and each time the thread degenerates into Old_Dan being derogatory and ErrorCoins getting upset and defensive. This is NUTS! and I'm annoyed by it.

Why can't you to agree to disagree instead of insisting on agruing the same points repeatedly?!


Susan-By my count OlD_Dan has called ErrorCoins an idoit 3 times, certainly that is enough to kill this thread. Please, close this thread, put it out of its misery!

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Why can't you to agree to disagree instead of insisting on agruing the same points repeatedly?!

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This is NUTS! and I'm annoyed by it.

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I totally agree!!! Errorcoins, you seem to make a habit of defending yourself every other post and in a rather disturbing and harsh manner. On other threads you do the same thing whenever someone gives their opinion on "errors" especially if it differs from yours. I really enjoy collecting errors and I enjoy seeing the photos of your discoveries, yes they are fun. I just don't consider die cracks, gouges a "big deal", but that is MY opinion and I don't force it onto anyone. What is important is thet YOU enjoy them and you consider them a "big deal". Everyone knows that by now so please quit reminding us. Debates are good but there comes a time to realize when it has run it's course and tempers are heating up.