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 Replies: 27 / Views: 4,401 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3253 Posts |
...is now on the New York Stock Exchange. In case you care to invest in the globalized worldwide marketing of Chinese counterfeit coins.
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Moderator
 United States
188052 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
917 Posts |
I'll tell you what. I wish I would have invested yesterday. The IPO was at $68 a share its currently at 92.34 and climbing as I type.92.50 92.61 92.74
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1158 Posts |
alibaba is just a marketplace, not a seller. And they are huge.
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Forum Dad
United States
24153 Posts |
They allow the sale of counterfeit ANYTHING, they just don't care. Now that they've gone public, they'll care even less.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
As long as CCF has a Bad Word Filter, I have nothing to say.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8137 Posts |
So they want more money to make more fake stuff?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1158 Posts |
They don't make things at all.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
917 Posts |
For a company that is now worth 231 BILLION dollars they are obviously doing something right. They are no different to me then ebay or craigslist or any other retailer. |
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
No comment.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
Quote:For a company that is now worth 231 BILLION dollars they are obviously doing something right. They are no different to me then ebay or craigslist or any other retailer. Aside from, you know, they have no sense on ethics what so ever. They're a key contributor to the saturation of Chinese fake coins in the Coin Market and while most CCF members are now adept enough to identify anything but the most convincing fake, there are still the segment of collectors who are totally oblivious to chinese fakes and end up paying many hundred or thousands for fake coins. Does "1804 Rare USA Dollars, Good Condition" or "Very Rare 1913 Liberty nickel, USA" ring any bells? Well this is the place that promotes there. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of counterfeits they sell that aren't even related to coins who also end up saturating the European and North American Markets and hurt our economy. Without them, the mass manufacturers of Counterfeits wouldn't be able to even offload 10% of what they're selling now. I'm gonnah stop my rant right here though. I'm just frustrated with these guys  |
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Valued Member
United States
269 Posts |
Yahoo did well today with a 20% stake in Alibaba, though Yahoo's shares fell  |
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
Yeah, BRK-A was only down $75  swcoin.ecrater.com
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19942 Posts |
Quote:
I'll tell you what. I wish I would have invested yesterday. The IPO was at $68 a share its currently at 92.34 and climbing as I type.92.50 92.61 92.74 The $68 price is a joke. I watched it from open until end and the lowest it went in the real market was $89. IMO, this is a suckers bet. I've been trading stocks for over 20 years and know first hand about owning stock in Chinese companies. I will NEVER own one again! I stayed far, far away from this joke of an IPO (you don't actually own shares of the company). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
I listened to the NPR report and story on the Alibaba story last night, it was quite interesting, started by a teenager. Now worth more than Amazon and ebay combined! Not a fan of the counterfeit items they allow, but they are much larger than just a coin marketplace. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4589 Posts |
Actually you can't own shares in AB. You are buying American Depository Receipts (ADRs). https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/...9_ex99-a.htmUsually the ADSes represent 1 or 1/n or n shares of the actual stock. Placed in escrow. Net some fees you get the dividends paid and the price of the ADR closely tracks the underlying stock. Royal Dutch Shell is probably the most commonly owned ADR. This isn't that... the entire ownership structure is opaque. http://www.bloomberg.com/video/alib...Mny4YVA.html (caution autoplay) So if you bought AB's 'shares', you bought an ADR for a master holding company in the Cayman Islands that owns bits and pieces of companies that own other companies that own companies in China that have agreements with companies wholly owned or controlled by Jack Ma. http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05...e-structure/Quote:
What exactly will shareholders be buying, you may be asking. In Tuesday's securities filing, Alibaba revealed the answer. Quote:
The Chinese e-commerce behemoth will wholly own its non-Chinese assets, which provide the bulk of its revenue, according to the filing. Alibaba will not own most of its Chinese assets, including Taobao Marketplace and Alibaba.com. So the companies that are the core of Alibaba's Chinese operations â€" the main reason for the anticipated heated investor demand â€" will not even be owned by Alibaba. The Times article goes on to discuss the "VIE" structure... and then this bombshell Quote:
If it all sounds too neat, there are two significant risks with the V.I.E. structure â€" risks that Alibaba has bluntly acknowledged.
The structure may be illegal under Chinese law since it conveniently circumvents those prohibitions on foreign investment. ... Quote:
The S.E.C. cannot ban offerings for being "too risky" or even for potentially being illegal. The only thing the regulator can do is require disclosure of the risks. It has done so here: Alibaba, in its prospectus, states that if the V.I.E. structure is ruled illegal, then Alibaba's business may be significantly harmed and substantial fines might be imposed. Anyway, that's my issue with AliBaba, not the goods for sale. You can find counterfeit goods on ebay. Heck, one of my favorite coin show dealers had a page of copies today that weren't marked. The goods for sale on AliBaba/AliExpress are legal under Chinese law. I did find it interesting that AliExpress won't sell to Washington state because - apparently - the way AE handles escrow is illegal under WA law. But that's typical of mail order and internet - minimal adherence to local laws. But there's no way I'm buying a virtual share and hoping that Mr. Ma - with all of the history saying he won't - will act honestly with the 'shareholders'. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Replies: 27 / Views: 4,401 |
Posted 09/19/2014 12:17 pm
