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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,288 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1215 Posts |
By fakes, I mean contemporary fakes.
Some people say fake coins are not coins and should not be graded. Besides, they often get worn intentionally.
While others argue that a fake coin has some kind of history to them/siginficance and thus should be graded.
What do you think?
Should you assign a counterfeit coin a grade like FA-35 meaning Fake-35?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
No. With all these super counterfeits flooding the market, it's only a matter of time when they get intentionally worn out to blend with circulated coins.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5173 Posts |
If it's an old contemporary counterfeit (or anything else famous, like a Henning nickel), the slab should definitely mention what the coin is exactly, and say the grade as if it was a real coin otherwise (XF-35 or whatever).
I suspect the only reason such coins aren't officially slabbed yet is because of the dubious legality. I'm sure there are lots of people who would want to slab their Henning nickels - grade included, naturally.
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Valued Member
Australia
193 Posts |
Quote:
By fakes, I mean contemporary fakes. Grading is based on the idea of an ideal mint state down through various states of wear. A contemporary fake does not adhere to that model, as its condition can also be part of its deceit. So because one is an apple and the other is an orange, so to speak, I think there is no relevance to grading a contemporary fake. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
Not sure what the hypothetical new "FA" grade has to do with anything... The Sheldon grading system works just fine now for coins such as Machin's Mills series, which are slabbed and recognized as contemporary counterfeits but are collected by Colonial Collectors just the same. In my opinion, ASE's should not be graded either since they are not really "coins". They are just "official" bullion rounds. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
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Some people say fake coins are not coins and should not be graded. I'm one of them. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
The TPG's DO grade these type of coins they get a grade called "Counterfeit" and that's the way it should stay IMHO  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
So let me get this straight...
I collect contemporary counterfeits.
They are not real coins... Thus I am not a real coin collector?
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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They are not real coins... Thus I am not a real coin collector?
Not at all. It's a perfectly valid branch of numismatic scholarship. As are tokens, and I'm not in favor of grading tokens either. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
A grade is simply a way of expressing the amount of deterioration an item has received or undergone since it was created. It doesn't matter who created an item, government or private, official or unofficial, it was in a given condition when it was created, and if it had deteriorated since then that can be described or graded. As such I see no reason why a grade could not be applied to a counterfeit coin.
I have contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens that circulated right along side the genuine pieces and received wear. These coins are worn down and they do deserve a grade.
ICG will slab counterfeits, for educational purposes, but I don't know if they assign them a grade.
Edited by Conder101
10/09/2014 11:11 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
As an example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE...047675.l2557An OBVIOUS contemporary counterfeit. Sold for over $215 because it is a known variety in high grade. Compare this one to others of a lower grade and you will see a price difference. To me, this is worthy of assigning a "real" grade. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
While collecting contemporary counterfeit is fine, the biggest threat to coin collectors is the amount of super counterfeits coming out in the market on a daily basis.
My real concern is that once counterfeits find that it's profitable to make counterfeited coins looked weathered / worn and then have it slabbed, they WILL do it. These crooks are smart - they can read forums and do anything to make a buck out from you.
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New Member
Denmark
40 Posts |
Must say that I find it to be a somewhat strange discussion â€" Grading is a simplified form of describing an item (usual for dealing/trading purpose). Hence most collected items of any value are assigned with a grade or a description. To describe or grade any item a certain amount of knowledge is necessary and grading contemporary counterfeits demands a specific knowledge of the various types of counterfeit of any given period and region. And when it comes to discuss who may title themselves as coin collectors or not... I wonder who really cares? Some ‘tokens' may be called coins in the sense that their metal content had a value close to the denomination given on the token. But most of the so called coins issued today are merely fiat money and could be seen as a sort of bank notes made of metal. So to define what a coin is may not be as easy as one thinks. Group of counterfeit UK 1816 shillings made from same die pair  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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My real concern is that once counterfeits find that it's profitable to make counterfeited coins looked weathered / worn and then have it slabbed, they WILL do it. They have been doing that for years, especially on older dated coins because MS 18th century or early 19th century material draws additional scrutiny. A worn piece is more easily accepted, suspicion is reduced and it is more likely the counterfeit can be sold as real. |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,288 |
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Posted 10/09/2014 03:14 am
