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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,285 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4778 Posts |
I managed to obtain this beat up but very rare, 5th century Roman coin type, of which I didn't have before. Because it was beat up it garnered little interest and I was able to obtain it for relatively cheap. Before bidding I was under the assumption that this type was struck only by Emperor Theodosius II later in his reign in Constantinople. After winning it, I was surprised (and reminded) that this type was also struck in Valentinian III's name, Theo II's co-emperor in the west (although struck in Constantinople which belonged to Theo II). Given the coin's state I soon will have to go through the challenging task of trying to attribute this either to Theo II or Val III. I see a glimmer of hope though: near the bottom left-hand side of the bust I see what looks to be a "T", although it looks a little too close to the base of the bust so it might possibly be the N in "D N". I'll just have to wait to have it in hand and examine it before making any definite conclusions. Knowing me I would have gone for it anyways  , although my max bid probably would have been lower. If I ultimately can't tell in hand who is on the obverse I'll take the easy way out and go with the more common emperor for this type, Theo II. The reverse is Theo II and Val III standing, with a long cross between them. Legend is CONCORDIA AGV.  Here is a better example of this type (from Wildwinds):  Anyone else realized they made a mistake after buying a coin? (aside from having a coin later turn out to be fake) Edited by VisigothKing 10/22/2014 6:00 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Good luck with this one, it's going to be a real challenge to pin it down to one or the other. The one of Val III is supposed to have a star above the cross. I don't see one on yours. It would be nice to have the Val III, but my best guess is that it's a Theo II.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5174 Posts |
I think by now it's been three or four coins I bought as Marcian that turned out to be anything but (Marcian, of course, didn't issue any non-monogram copper - and my only monogram coin is a Leo). One in particular turned out to be a common late 4th century type (don't recall which one) missing most of the emperor name - so there was no way to say which emperor. I've put that coin away on some distant shelf; recently tried to find it to look again, but it wasn't on the shelf I thought I put it on, and I don't know where else I could've put it, unfortunately. (One other was apparently a Julian II; don't remember what the others were if any.)
Another example that barely counts as medieval: a few years ago, I've bought a silver wire coin of Ivan IV thinking it was an example of the supposedly uncommon "sword kopek" variety from 1535; for some reason I decided to weigh it - one of maybe four or five coins I've ever seriously weighed - and got a result of 0.34 grams... much more common, and completely normal, 1540s denga. (The actual sword kopeks ultimately turned out to be somewhat more common than I thought; I currently own two of them, actually. Fun fact: etymologically, the word "kopek" means "a coin with a spear" - referring to the iconic horseman-with-spear image from post-1535 kopek types, later reinterpreted as Saint George - so "sword kopek" is an oxymoron. It gets called that anyway.)
Your troubles remind me of my attempts to "attribute" my front-facing copper. The type was issued for Arcadius, Honorius and Theodosius (don't recall which one), and the planchet on my example clips off right after DN - I can just about see the three bottom lines of the first two letters of the emperor name, and nothing of anything further. Of course, since there are three lines, it's not Honorius, and the spacing of them looks relatively even so it's probably Arcadius (Theodosius would've had a more uneven spacing).
Coincidentally, that's one weird shape for a coin! I wonder whether it was minted that way, or got broken later.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4778 Posts |
Thanks echizento. I'll see if this type is in the spreadsheets and try to narrow it down there. Quote: (Marcian, of course, didn't issue any non-monogram copper Good rule of thumb right there. You'll know something's not right if you find a supposedly non-monogram Marcian bronze (whether just misattributed or a fake). Though remember that Marcian's gold and silver have varying (non-monogram) designs. Quote: One in particular turned out to be a common late 4th century type (don't recall which one) missing most of the emperor name - so there was no way to say which emperor. I have been through that a few times, especially with the Victory advancing left nummi, and the similar victory dragging captive type. But there are ways to identify the emperor even without a name, such as when a certain field mark/mintmark/reverse type combination belongs to only one emperor. My Valentinian III victory advancing left nummus is an example; no name present but SALVS REPVBLICE with S field mark only belongs to him. And this may be hard to believe but even into this era some style was put into the busts on some of the bronzes. If you find a SALVS REIPVBLICE w/Chi-rho on the reverse left-hand side, and the bust is bearded, you've got a rare Johannes on your hands. Quote: Coincidentally, that's one weird shape for a coin! I wonder whether it was minted that way, or got broken later. It must have gotten broken. Irregular shaped coins didn't really become mainstream until early Byzantine times (600s-ish). Plus the broken edges don't look neatly cut, as in irregular flans or coins cut to make change.
Edited by VisigothKing 10/22/2014 7:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2133 Posts |
I've made many mistakes over the years, most turn out for the worse, a few turn out for the better but I have learned from both kinds.
My first coin mistake at age 14 was believing a shiny MT thaler was really minted in 1780.
My second was trusting the grading of a coin auctioneer (fortunately, out of business many years ago); the price was fair at the grade stated but it was way overgraded.
Recently I bought a carton of books at auction - just for 2 of the books. Last week I discovered an 1886 copy of English Coins and Tokens with a Chapter on Greek and Roman Coins by Jewett in excellent condition between the pages of a worthless book in the lot.
The best buy I had was while buying some stycas, when the dealer mentioned he had a holed penny of Harold I. I paid a reasonable price. Years later, I discovered it was the much rarer Harold II.
Edited by Pertinax 10/22/2014 7:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
 Ha you amaze me VK. Most collectors and numismatists find the coin and piece the history together it appears you have decided on the opposite, start with the history and piece the coin together. Brilliant. 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4778 Posts |
Thanks Anoob. I feel that I have to be interested in a coin's culture/time period before buying. Without having that passion, I think coin collecting would feel pretty empty to me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4964 Posts |
I wasn't even aware of that revers type, very interesting VK.
neat about "kopek" J1M...had no idea that's what the term meant.
how this of a mistake...this week I lost (at least for the time being) an ivan iv sword guy wire coin. no idea where it went to, spent almost an hour looking of it last night.
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Pillar of the Community
3772 Posts |
Nice piece of shrapnel you have there - but haven't we all? Quote: Anyone else realized they made a mistake after buying a coin? ( Not really a mistake but have bought a few coins wrongly attributed and in the end the coin was worth the money. Have I overpaid for a coin I wanted to have? Certainly but not by much (so far). Had more good luck with 'misattributions', was quite often able to find a treasure amongst coins put into 'junk boxes', eg got two crusader coppers (Roger of Salerno Follis) from a junk box containing cheap $5 Byzantines.
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,285 |
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