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Hudson Bay Token 1/8

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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4417 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This token does pose a great many questions. Perhaps, there will someday surface archival info that offers answers.
Valued Member
Canada
444 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin Scavenger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've requested information from the online Hudson Bay historian.
Valued Member
Canada
496 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billfrak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try searching for articles written by Gringas
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Canada
9865 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not much here; https://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/...e_tokens.pdf

More about punching here; http://www.calgarycoin.com/modern/cantoken.htm

A little by Gingras here; http://gosling.ca/HBC/Medals%20and%...r%201968.pdf

Apparently there's something by Gingras in "The Beaver" but you have to be a member.
Also something in back issues of CN Journal from 2007, but I don't know how you access those, 2007 isn't in the online archives.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
11/10/2014 9:32 pm
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DBM, is it the RCNA journal you're talking about? My library might have some older issues in storage and I can go check (might be a few days if they've moved it to an off-campus storage).

Something from Coins of Canada: When it was decided to redeem them, the tokens were punched on the reverse at the top to show that they have been redeemed and cancelled.

But it says "at the top" instead of "at the bottom of the reverse".
Edited by Altaira
11/10/2014 9:53 pm
Valued Member
Canada
444 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2014  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin Scavenger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm still at a loss for information on the token being silver or a like material or plating. Would anyone have anything to add?
Valued Member
Canada
496 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2014  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billfrak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am just guessing,but I believe it was originally
a punch mark,not a hole.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4417 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2014  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMHO. it's better defined as a hole. If one was to continually apply a punch mark to the same spot on a coin/token, the end result would be a hole, would it not? To my reckoning, a hole indicates the absence of metal or any mark. A coin/token that's marked with a punch is punch-marked, I believe; this with a punch-mark being the general term for a hallmark or maker's mark, a counterstamp or a countermark. Just my Two Cents ...

The holes on the Beaver tokens were strategically positioned in the same spot, so as to not disturb the legends. This being the case, I'm doubtful that these neatly formed holes were a form of cancellation. My guess is that some were simply made this way and others not. I'd also venture that some of the recipients of these tokens would probably prefer to have holed ones that could be strung together, and that could be the reason why holed specimens exist.
Valued Member
Canada
444 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2014  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin Scavenger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm looking for more examples or information on the composition.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4417 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2014  08:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You may want to do a specific gravity test to determine the composition.. Also, are there any tokens from that era and region which are of similar fabric?

Here's a good instruction site for determining specific gravity:

http://www.exonumi.com/?page=article&art=1



Valued Member
Canada
444 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2014  09:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin Scavenger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
 Also, are there any tokens from that era and region which are of similar fabric?

This is the question that I'm looking to get answered. The token would have a different wow factor if it was silver.
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AgCoinAu's Avatar
Canada
3049 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2014  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgCoinAu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just thinking outside the box here but perhaps contact the national archives or manitoba archives... (they have a pretty large amount of HBC archives) which with a simple phone call you may get a few more answers..

Just on a side note .. the Manitoba archives has some fantastic HBC records.. if you're ever in Winnipeg and have some time to kill... what little the archives has on display is always facinating...
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United States
937 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tryna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This mentions the tokens in aluminum but they look different

https://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/...e_tokens.pdf
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tried requesting the 2007 journals from my library, but they won't send the whole thing over since it's being stored off site. They want me to fill out a form with what issue and what pages, and they will photocopy those pages and give the photocopy to me. I don't know anything on that...
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AgCoinAu's Avatar
Canada
3049 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2014  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgCoinAu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This was bothering me for awhile.. the hole on many tokens that I have seen of this issue have always been in the same place and it seems too deliberate for it to be random...

After some digging I found out that the tokens made at the East Main factory (reason you see the E & M on the token) were later shipped to the Moose Factory to supply the need near James Bay. To make them distinguisable a fella by the name of James Anderson applied a punch mark to the obverse of each.

(A guide book of canadian coins and tokens -Haxby)

So far that's all that I have been able to find out about this token... hope it helps some...
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