| Author |
 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,040 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
HI, Using diagnostics to attribute coins is a two sided issue. The coins shown here are to point out that what someone sees may not be a diagnostic of anything specific. The first example shows a coin with a weak E of E PLURIBUS UNUM The coin is dated 1971 D. The weak E can be seen on many coins of many dates and by itself is not a diagnostic tool for anything in particular. The rest of the coins show similar weakness on the letters STATES OF. Weakness of strike will cause the lettering on this portion of the coin to show up with various degrees of weakness (or sharpness) of the lettering. It is very common to see different degrees of weakness in this area. The idea here is that you can't look for one diagnostic item listed in a guide and based upon that diagnostic alone decide whether a coin is a doubled die or another desirable coin. Take for example the 1983 Lincoln Cent DDR FS# 1c-036 (The big one) . The coin is supposed to have weakness on the words UNITED STATES. It would not mean that every 1983 cent with weak lettering on UNITED STATES would be a doubled die. Common anomalies do not by themselves allow us to attribute a doubled die for example. It is often a group of many diagnostic markers that would be used to determine if a coin is one that would be a "keeper". The things seen on these coins are on a group of coins that I randomly looked through in about 15 minutes. The "diagnostics" seen on these coins don't indicate anything. They just happen randomly as coins are being struck.  Back with more later. Thanks, Bill ***Edited by Forum Dad to tidy up the image layout a little  *** |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
Hey...if that last coin you posted is really a 1992D, you have a definite rarity!!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3507 Posts |
Woops...Thanks Chuck...The last coin is a 1999D I labeled it wrong......How do you edit these posts? :-)
|
|
Forum Dad
 United States
24150 Posts |
Click the  along the top of the post, but I already tidied that up if that's all you were going to do.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
I also changed the pic , which worked...I relabeled the coin as a 1999 D ...I see that your posts are linked to the pictures and not copied to your server. Thats great! That way if I botch up a picture, I just have to switch it on my own server:-)
Thanks for your help!!
Bill
|
|
Forum Dad
United States
24150 Posts |
quote:
That way if I botch up a picture, I just have to switch it on my own server:-)
Yep, you can change the dimensions too without it getting distorted. The forum doesn't code the height and width.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Here is an example where small things make a big difference. This is an example of a 1972 Lincoln - FS#1c-033.3 (The Big One) When we attribute these, we use very specific diagnostics that have to match up, period...Of course the overall appearance of the coin has to be right. Then we check the date area. We look for the correct notching and grooves. They must be exact. We also look for the doubling on the right side of Lincoln's jacket. Next, we look at LIBERTY. Notice how there is less doubling as you move toward the TY. Keeping in mind that these coins have been counterfeited, we turn the coin over. It is because counterfeiters either don't know this or because they can't duplicate it, that they miss this diagnostic. It is miniscule but if it is not there, the coins authenticity is doubtful. Note the microscopic, fingerlike projection above the D of UNITED, It is on every genuine , undamaged coin. There was a minute scratch in the die that resulted in this little anomaly. On this coin, it is the combination of diagnostics that allow us to determine if the coin is genuine. If you have an example of one of these, look for the mark above the D and you will find it. It is also important to note, and I've seen it many times before...1972 DDO FS#1c-033.52 has been offered by dealers as "The Big One" because it does have nice doubling but it is not the same as the DDO shown here. Look for the "finger" above the D which is raised from the surface of the coin to attribute FS#1c-033.3 (The Big One:-)  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
One more for tonight...Let me first say that the CherryPickers' Guide has a notation under this one that suggests a theory of a "well placed die chip". It is my personal opinion as well as that of many specialists that these are indeed doubled dies. Note that the extra earlobes, taking into account some slight variance in lighting, are identical on each of these three coins. When looking for the doubled ear 1997 DDO, the ears must look identical to these or it is simply not the right one. Thanks, Bill  |
|
Member
United States
3242 Posts |
How about this one Foundinaroll It a 97 with a Die crack so I am told  Image Insert: |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
Amac - Look at the three photos of the doubled ear. The lobe is doubled to the south. That's what it looks like. Your coin doesn't have doubling to the south on the earlobe, it has a die crack behind the ear. I'm not sure what your question is, but it seems to me it would be obvious that your coin and his photos do not match.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Hi Amac,
Yes, the picture that you have shows a die crack or the result of a die chip. The doubled ear is a very specific coin. So, if you are asking if it is a die crack...it is.
If you are curious as to whether or not it is a doubled ear. It wouldn't be.
Thanks,
Bill
|
|
Member
United States
3242 Posts |
I was just showing a different type 1997.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
This leads us back to prior posts, threads, and conversations. Foundinrolls is trying to show die varieties and using markers to identify them. A die crack is not a different "type" of coin, it's simply a coin with a die crack. Completely different subjects...
The coin that Bill photographed is a scarce die variety. All the coins with doubling on the ear like that were produced during a single few day period using one single die out of the hundreds used that year. It is distinguishable first by the doubling, then by other marks on the die that transferred to the coins. That's the subject of Bill's thread. A die crack can happen on any die at any time. Of the hundreds of dies that struck 1997 cents, there could be dozens that developed cracks in that area, equivalent to possibly up to 50 million coins. The doubled die is only known on about 200 pieces. The difference is all in how it was made and that doubled dies were not supposed to happen. Die cracks happen naturally, and the coins that have the cracks get out into circulation regularly.
|
|
Member
United States
3242 Posts |
|
|
Member
United States
3242 Posts |
I guess I cant say or post without Chucks OK?
|
| |
Replies: 15 / Views: 1,040 |
|
Posted 09/02/2007 11:01 pm
