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1751 MO 8 Reales

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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  11:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am hoping to eventually get one of these but taking things slowly since learning that there are many fakes. I was watching this coin and it seems good to me but would like to hear what others think of this coin.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mexico-1751...047675.l2557
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, bidding has ended at $305. Frankly, this is the sort of coin for which I'd want to see really good, detailed photos, including the edge, which is not the case with this particular auction. I consider something of this sort one of the riskiest things to buy on ebay in any event. As you note, forgeries are not uncommon, and even excluding deliberate deception on the part of a seller, even honest dealers really have to be on their game to spot them all.
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
11/11/2014 12:07 am
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swamperbob's Avatar
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5362 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I look at that coin and the first thing I see is a VERY STRANGE die crack.

A steel die will usually crack for one of two reasons.

First and most common is a crack due to failure of the steel due to stress fatigue. Cracks of this nature tend to occur in predictable positions where stress concentration occurs - they also take on rather predictable shapes. The press type will determine where stress concentration occurs. A press with a collar causes breaks in different locations than open sided screw presses.

The second most common cause of cracks happened mostly in older mints and was due to poor quality die steel. Internal voids or internal seams that were not detectable are typical. These too usually take on very standard shapes depending on the cause.

Here I see a crack that fits no normal classification for a steel fracture.

1751-MO-8-Reales

The crack starts at a point near the edge of the die and runs inward in two directions - away from a high stress area. After viewing hundreds of thousands of coins struck on collarless screw presses - I can not recall seeing an example like this.

A close look at the end of the lower of the two cracks shows a change of angle at the termination of the crack as if the die face twisted.

To me this looks like a typical tear in a plastic or hard rubber mold. Below I have circled the area that appears to show twisting.

1751-MO-8-Reales

Can't be positive but I would want to look very close at this coin to see if the coin was an injection cast.
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