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Colonial Collectors

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scopru's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  08:53 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I read threads about all the various coins as I am sure most on here do. Apparently at some point my wife saw me looking at colonial coins or reading one of the threads and bought me the encyclopedia of colonial coins - is for christmas so I am not able to go through the book yet nor am I supposed to know she got it. Happened to hear her telling one of the kids...

...one thing recently that caught my attention on a thread about colonials was: The poster mentioned colonial collecters have a different mindset than most other collectors.

so I have a couple of questions:

1) please clarify what is different about the mindset?

2) The comments mentioned ed - which led me to believe colonial coins having ed is not that big of a deal - is that correct?


These comments certainly piqued my curiosity, because I always look at colonials as another coin and do not pay much attention to the ones that look really corroded or damaged.

So I am hoping a couple of the colonial collectors I have read many posts on reply. Who knows, this book - which is a great surprise as I didnt think anyone really paid attention to me and my coin interests - and some further research and disucussion on colonials may just send me down a path I was not expecting!

Thanks for any replies -

Scott
Edited by scopru
11/13/2014 10:57 am
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
1) please clarify what is different about the mindset?

Most collectors of US coins Seem to want to insist their coins all be locked away in slabs, and in high grade with no problems. Any damage or small problems and the coin is a reject or "something I would not have in my collection". Current market value is often very important to them/

Collectors of colonials often would rather not have their coins in slabs, they want to hold them, weigh them, examine them closely. To them they are a tangible link to history. They understand that their coins were meant to be USED and they were used. They know that the planchets were often substandard and the coins were abused. These "problems" are often part of the "story" of the coin and they are accepted as such. Problem free coins for all practical purposes don't exist for many of these coins and that is something they accept.


Quote:
2) The comments mentioned ed - which led me to believe colonial coins having ed is not that big of a deal - is that correct?

To some extent. Even the collector of colonials would rather have a coin that doesn't have problems, and for problem coins they would rather have coins that are not cleaned or haven't been deliberately damaged. But problems from circulation or flawed manufacturing material are more accepted. Also for some of these coins they are encountered so infrequently you are willing to take a problem coin because you may not be able to get another one. When you are dealing with most regular issue US coins you will often hear the comment that if you don't like it pass because another one will come along soon. That isn't always the case with colonials, especially scarcer varieties. You pass on a tough one you may not see another one for years, and there is a good chance that one will be a problem coin too.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Scott ... Sounds like you'll have some excellent reading material for the cold winter months! I'll offer my thoughts on your questions:

As for the mindset, the typical coin collector gets more oriented to completing sets and upgrading. The goals are more easily defined. When it comes to colonials, the parameters depend more on collector tastes and availability than upon tradition. This is why we don't see Whitman or Dansco albums for colonials. There are ever so many angles to forming a personal collection.

Many colonial coppers were struck on defective planchets. Also, many were overstruck upon other coppers from the era. Then too, there are the post-colonial issues and coppers that were struck in Europe that have been "grandfathered" into the Red Book. These factors contribute to or detract from the collector mindset, if you will. Then, there are the many varieties to be considered, or not, within the various series. The Connecticut varieties seem most daunting to me.

Oftentimes, collectors confuse defective planchets with ED. Particularly common are the laminated planchets which many coin dealers see as damage, given their predominantly traditional marketplace mindset. To my "colonial mindset" this adds to the allure of a copper; particularly so, if the color and wear are even. It's the same old story ... One man's trash is another man's treasure.

The new colonial book makes it easier for the average collector to attribute varieties. prior to this book, one would need to establish more of a library. The library is still a great thing to have, and necessary for advanced collectors, but the Bowers' book is exactly what was needed for entry level and intermediate colonial enthusiasts.

Today's coin collectors at large are condition conscious, assembling registry sets that enrich the TPG companies. Most colonial collectors I know have the mindset of wanting to hold their "naked" coppers in hand - carefully, gently, mind you! As for condition, a VG for some varieties might even be the top grade or at least a condition census coin. So much for explaining this colonial collector's mindset.
Edited by ExoGuy
11/13/2014 11:55 am
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scopru's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for that very enlightening and we'll written reply... certainly gave some research to do as you have answered my questions but increased my curiosity as well. Thank you.

Scott
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scopru's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That was a thank you to both of you.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Always happy to help and encourage a fellow collector. The only sad part of this, not really, is that as more folks get interested in the colonials, the competition increases! Happy reading and hunting, Scott.
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jerseyben's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jerseyben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to add that contemporary counterfeits circulated in the colonial era alongside regal (genuine) coinage. Counterfeits actually filled a void that regal coinage could not meet. Thus, counterfeits are fairly accepted by colonial collectors as legitimate areas of study and worthy of collecting.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Then too, there were the 19th century copies, electrotypes of colonials.
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scopru's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well again thank you for the add on replies. And I look forward to reading replies to what will surely be many more questions as I begin digging in to the subject matter more deeply.
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vermontensium's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2014  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most coin collectors don't start with early copper or Colonials, they discover them. Early big copper has something very special to it, kind of like a fine Scotch.
Every one minted has their own unique characteristics. The crude refining and Minting process of these coins, along with the hand cut dies makes this a very interesting area of Numismatics, only to be admired that much more.
Some Colonials, like other coins, are not without problems. Some are obvious and some not so much.
What appears as damage to most collectors, could merely be planchet voids or flaws to Colonial Numismatists (as struck).
What appears to be a hole in the planchet, could very well be the flan pre-struck.
ED vs. planchet voids could be hard to differentiate at first, but with experience, you'll learn to separate the two.
Grading Colonials is a different animal than other issues. The striking methods of the day, as well as engraving and other factors, all have to be taken into consideration when it comes to Colonial grading.
What one might think is a VG could very well be a VF. Again, experience and handling several coins of each series will help you gain experience and learning the nuances of each.
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 Posted 11/14/2014  08:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ambro51 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are some strong truths spoken here. I'll add, specializing in colonials let's you ignore vast areas of numismatics that clog your brain and empty your walled. You'll bypass "green monster boxes", CAC stickers, first strike games, collecting by the roll, Whitman albums etc etc etc. You can ignore all the poo. Once you understand how why and where very early coins worked, you'll be in touch with life in the 18th century. Enjoy the Bowers book, but realize the valuations are only a guide, frequently high. Look at a LOT of coins in hand, you'll get a "feel" for how we 'grade'. You'll understand why THIS coin is waaaaay greater than any shiny new Mint issue! Colonial-Collectors Colonial-Collectors
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TreasHunt's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2014  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TreasHunt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed:

Colonial collectors do not want/need slabs generally.

also, MS pieces are not common and well worn pieces are avidly collected.

Quite a few years ago I sold a colonial piece (rare variety) to a famous collector/dealer that had been found metal detecting. Not sure of he price but about $800, and it was still dirty and some corrosion.


Different world there.
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scopru's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2014  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Really fascinating responses folks... again thank you for adding more and more tinder to the spark.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2014  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At times, studying my colonials, I can virtually hear the fife and drum a-playin' ....
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TJsCoins's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2014  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TJsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I personally like that there are so many cool colonial varieties!
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kevro22's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2014  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kevro22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I collect classic and modern US series but being a huge Revolutionary War buff, I was naturally attracted to not only pre-US colonial coins but also early British and Colonial Spanish coins. To think that you can hold and study a tangible item connected with this time frame is what gets me (and most collectors) going. Hope you enjoy the book and the new foray you have started.
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