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TPGs Getting More Lax Because Of Sticker Cos?

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Scropper's Avatar
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702 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2014  03:49 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Scropper to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just had a horrifying thought. I was thinking about the thread about the new sticker company that's supposed to specialize in moderns and it occurred to me (in a horrifying manner, I must say),

Do you think the TPGs are getting more lax in their grading because they know the sticker companies will really separate the wheat from the chaff?

I've been noticing really spotty coins from TPGs a lot more often.

And why not? If a TPG has a solid reputation, they can let a few more 67s squeak through as 69s now because in the future, CAC or WINGS or whatever will really sort the 69s from the remainder. And in the mean time, the submitters are happy because they're getting coins that are regularly graded higher.

I was reading Ron Drzewucki's post about grading coins and how the typical coin gets about 20 seconds in front of a professional grader. Now, I'm no professional, but if it's an important coin to me I'll spend at least a few minutes looking over it, and sometimes I'll go back to it later after the initial blinding impression has worn off. When I grade, I grade in artificial and natural light, with a jeweler's loupe, and I use high res photographs, and with my eye and my arm out stretched, I give the coin a going over. And I'm no fantastic grader, I'm sure even though I do it a lot every day. So each coin gets a couple of minutes of my attention. But 20 seconds? Really? That does explain a lot... I guess the ol' 80/20 rule is just feeling like 60 40 these days. Or maybe I'm just noticing more, or maybe I'm just more jaded.

And don't get me wrong, I have a HUGE appreciation for all that the grading companies have done and continue to do. They're so important, and the coins that count that need to be authenticated - forget graded - they do a massive service to our hobby.


And this idea of mine I hope is wrong surely seems like short term thinking; of course the market will correct. And then of course, if people are getting the grade they want, they're not resubmitting and throwing off the pop numbers. But if the grades are flat wrong, that throws the pop numbers off....

I'm blabbing now. Anyway, I just had the thought and see I'd pose the idea to get other people's thoughts. Hopefully there's something I'm missing. Or maybe it's just some bizarre perception and I really am not seeing the bigger picture.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 12/05/2014  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS and ANACS, at least, are grading tighter than ever these days. That trend was already happening when CAC was formed.
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Scropper's Avatar
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702 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2014  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scropper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you kidding me? I just got a Franklin that would never have made FBL in the past, and I got two ANACS "69" Kennedy halves that wouldn't make 66 anywhere else. And I picked up a PCGS Baseball Proof graded 69 that should have been a 67... Maybe I've just gotten a list of iffy coins or something.
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acloco's Avatar
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 Posted 12/05/2014  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately, there are several recent examples of bad grading. "Omaha Hoard" comes to mind. Same with the "Saddle Ridge Hoard".

I have also witnessed slabbed coins that DO matter on WHO submits for grading. Easy to prove. Send one in by yourself...crack it...and send in with a large order by a higher $$ dealer.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 12/05/2014  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Below is linked as an example of what I'm talking about. Note, these were part of a 270 coin submission.

https://goccf.com/t/190196#1771094
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Scropper's Avatar
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702 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2014  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scropper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I've noticed hoard coins and pedigree coins in particular happen to get much laxer grading. Interesting.

So... to the original point: Is it getting worse because of the sticker companies? Or are things the same as they ever were?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 12/06/2014  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, the point kind of is, the changes coincide roughly with the founding of CAC. Both were reactions to the same problem - the TPG's were all over the map with consistency - but CAC didn't really change what the TPG's were already going to do.

So the hoard coins are older, iffy slabs. The pedigree coins' history is too well-known for a TPG to downgrade on reslab - previous owners would be furious.

As an average, I'm thinking TPG grading is as tight right now as it ever has been.
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Scropper's Avatar
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702 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2014  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scropper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh well, now that's interesting. I have a pedigreed coin I was thinking about sending in, not for an upgrade but for a preservation service. Of course, I'm very concerned that it will get a details grade, but I still think it's the thing to do as the coin has some important history. At least now I know to expect more surely a downgrade of some kind.

So what's a large enough order to get neutral or preferential treatment? 20 coins? 50 coins? 150 coins? Obviously, the more the merrier, but is there a "I won't submit until I have X coins together to go in" routine? Or is it even more based on how much consistent business you do?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 12/07/2014  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, as I linked above, Russ got slammed on grades and his submission totalled nearly three hundred coins...

I don't buy preferential treatment for big dealers, except on price. Preferential grades lead to lost customers because you're selling them overgraded dogs.
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Scropper's Avatar
United States
702 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2014  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scropper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hm, interesting. Sorry Dave, I misread what you wrote earlier! Thanks for your feedback and input. : )
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