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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,806 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
The details for this coin appear correct for an 1803 8 reales from Seville. However, given the light wear on the lettering around the rim I would expect to see more evidence of dentils. If I were serious about bidding on this coin I would ask the seller for its weight and pictures of the edges. Despite my suspicions, I would allow this auction to continue. I do believe the $17.25 charge for standard shipping is excessive but I don't know enough about ebay policy to judge if that alone is cause for stopping the auction. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
648 Posts |
Am I allowed to do a (very short ) goggle Picture search? hummmm that is so off. not very deceiving. back when it mattered stop it . save the bidiots. Now who cares, an expensive novelty piece, but not made in Spain,(maybe ) so a lie. Is that a reason to stop it? edit for Quote:
The details for this coin appear correct for an 1803 8 reales from Seville. thank you jgenn said short search Ha Edited by tokenmast
12/07/2014 12:27 am
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Hum, there is an issue with the denticles, I see almost none plus a raised line at the edge ...
Coin has been harshly cleaned as well, is not in good condition unlike described as such.
I would ask for a rim picture + weight before killing the auction.
Edited by MathieuMa
12/07/2014 06:37 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
I tend to agree with the ebay philosophy. Their job is to be the middleman. Authentication is left to the seller and buyer. Which means, "Buyers, know your coins." |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5362 Posts |
The coin is a Class 3 Numismatic Forgery - recently made injection molded in copper-nickel. This coin has appeared numerous times and is seen in the archives of ebay forgeries. Below are two identical examples I have examined in person which I have included in the Book.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Here is the ebay coin:  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
This coin was automatically stopped on sight. There were literally dozens posted in the 14 month period. They are products of mainland China.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Hehe, looks like I have a hard time finding the balance between being too conservative, or too hard on identification :D
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
kanga You say: Quote:I tend to agree with the ebay philosophy. Their job is to be the middleman. Authentication is left to the seller and buyer. Which means, "Buyers, know your coins."  In theory that is. However, even a Flea market venue operator "a consummate middle man" has an obligation to stop renting spaces to known frauds. Doing so, in some jurisdictions makes the venue complicit in the fraud. Under ANA Ethics policies the knowledge that a fraud has been committed obligates caution or removal in the future. The mere fact that ebay has operated as the middleman on millions of auctions of coins including thousands of counterfeits that are identical could be seen as knowledge of fraud. I think that under their own rules and ANA they have an ethical obligation to remove counterfeits like those in this question.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
Ok, I see it on page 157. Shame on me for not consulting my newest reference.  Quote:
Below are two identical examples I have examined in person which I have included in the Book. What did the edges look like? Edited by jgenn
12/08/2014 9:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
jgenn The coin has an incorrect edge but I do not recall if it was reeded or just a modern version of the incorrect colonial edge. I do recall that the ones I saw do not have the correct Continental diagonal edge. I did get a reply from the seller today. Here is what he said. Quote:
Hey Bob,
Thanks for the heads up on the Spanish 8 Reales. I'm pulling the listing and passing your information on to my consignor.
This Trust & Safety Committee sounds like a beneficial service. Too bad that they felt the need to discontinue it. Multiple counterfeits that I'm familiar with are seen daily in the listings, particularly with counterstamps.
Best regards, .......
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
Well that was a nice answer but asking $17.25 for standard shipping sure seems like the seller expected to have the coin returned but still wanted to make a profit.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
jgenn Possibly - but if the seller had to mail the coin registered at the request of the consignor that is the correct price. I heard from the seller again after the first time, here is that second response that adds some data that the first note did not include: Quote:
After your email, I went back to the coin for a good, close look. The edge was poorly done, obverse & reverse surfaces showed evidence of casting, and it only weighed 23.5 grams.
Needless to say, I was embarrassed with the knowledge that I was unwittingly listing a fake. Couldn't get it off fast enough!
My consignor has worked for thirty years in the coin business and, I'm sure, will find your information equally enlightening. For my part, a closer scrutiny of all his material will be in order. I've just pulled a pillar 1/2 real of his in Toned AU that looks cast. What other little monsters lurk in this material?
Once again, Bob, thank you for your efforts to improve the hobby.
The issues here are that a simple test of the weight in this case was all that was really needed. I think too many people miss the most obvious things when they want to believe a coin is genuine. Most people actually do not know or are unaware of how common forgeries actually are. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt - until they prove they are unreliable.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,806 |
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Posted 12/07/2014 12:18 am
