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Ever Destroy A Coin To Learn How It Reacts?

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scottk's Avatar
United States
767 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  09:55 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add scottk to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've been thinking about doing this.

Just taking a nice new lustrous quarter and experimenting on it. I am curious about how the metal will react. For instance, I have read several times that a gentle rinse with distilled water is a reasonably safe way to remove loose debris from a coin, but is it a coin really that delicate that it matters? If I have a silver dollar in vg condition, and it has some ashy stuff on it, are you telling me that someone ten years from now would know the difference if I washed it off under the faucet instead of in a cup of distilled water? Perhaps there's a delayed reaction thing I don't understand yet.

Anyway, I was thinking of taking the nicest, newest, shiniest quarter I can find and messing with it to see what happens from different processes. I'd maybe start with a soft toothbrush and some tap water, then rub it on a carpet for a while, put some acetone on it. Put some vinegar on it. Put it in the oven. Put it in the freezer. Let it sit outside in open air for a month or two, blow dry it. Polish it, maybe a few other things, and document it's state of wellness all along the way.

Ever done anything like that?

I wasn't sure if this was the right forum, but there is no "cleaning and restoration" forum.

I just worry that I would feel guilty for destroying the poor coin.

Edited by scottk
12/13/2014 09:57 am
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I admit I've succumbed to the destructive urge - once I scraped down a zinc penny until the zinc was showing all around the rim, then put it in vinegar. This ate away the zinc but not the copper, I was hoping to get a very thin but still recognizably penny-like piece of copper foil. Unfortunately it didn't perfectly work out.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's a few good reasons not to do this, most importantly numismatics is about preserving coins, not destroying them. A better reason for your immediate need is, any experienced member here can tell you what all these things will do to a coin, off the top of their head. Anything which can be done to a coin has already been done to a coin, and we have the t-shirts to prove it.
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Lunch Money's Avatar
United States
274 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lunch Money to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey scottk, with modern coinage, it may react differently than some of the old silver coins, but I still like the idea of your experiment. Have you considered getting a number of quarters and doing a different thing to each so you can see how each reacts to your various tests, independently. If you really want to get scientific, you could look up "Design of Experiments" and it will help you set it up so that you'll know the individual effects of the tests, but also the results of their interactions on the coins.
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scottk's Avatar
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767 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scottk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought of that Lunch, but that would mean destroying $1.25 of my own money.

And that ain't cool...
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United States
589 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Groszy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So long as you don't completely destroy the coins, to the point they're too bent or crumbling, you can always throw them into a roll and take 'em to a bank. Let them be the bank's problem. Ever needed a little copper for a chemical reaction? I have. Messed up a good number of older LMC coppers...took them to a bank I never go to when I was finished. No money wasted.

If you're going to experiment, use modern-day stuff. Unless you want to experiment with silver, in which case buy the "worse than cull" grade stuff (i.e., coins bent in half, massive holes, details obliterated, etc.) that sell for next to melt anyway. The coins are a step away from the melting pot as it is, so if you completely destroy it, no real harm done.
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Bertensgrad's Avatar
United States
1192 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bertensgrad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I once cut a new quarter into two pieces to mimic a clip. Used a hand jewelers saw to do it in a art class. Does this count? Still have the two pieces raw in my safe.
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austrokiwi's Avatar
2087 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I obtained a counter marked coin. It had obviously been heated to apply the countermark. I had a debate with some other collectors as to which side the heat was applied. Most said the burn't looking side was the one that had the heat applied. I actually thought it might be possible it was the other side( no oxygen) To settle the discussion I took an old silver coin and applied a blow torch to it. It was really interesting. My suspicion was right the side opposite to the flame ended up looking burnt...but even more intriguing was the migration of copper to the surface of the coin.
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scottk's Avatar
United States
767 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scottk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The copper came to the surface? Very neat.

What does that look like?

Btw I just toothbrushed a nickel with toothpaste and everything. It still has plenty of cartwheel luster. I haven't gotten my jewellers loupe out to examine the surface yet though. I don't see any immediately obvious difference by eyeballing it, except that it maybe a tiny *tiny* spec duller than before. That could just be a residue from the toothpaste, from not rinsing it well enough, or it could be my imagination.
Edited by scottk
12/13/2014 5:06 pm
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austrokiwi's Avatar
2087 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The copper came to the surface? Very neat.

What does that look like?


Initially it looked like copper plate then with more heat it took on a burnt hue
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I unplated several Canadian MPPS quarters for an experiment. They ended up not looking like quarters at all. I only managed to unplate one bare down to the steel core, it looks like a deformed too-small-slug of some sort.

I've also unplated several copper plated zinc pennies (can't remember if it was US or Canadian) just for the fun of it.

I didn't think to take any pics, don't know why. Perhaps I just didn't want to take my phone out while playing around with (possibly poisonous) chemicals, I mixed this with that and stuff.
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Buddy's Avatar
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, I've never destroyed a coin to see how it would react.

However, I have been playing around with chemicals trying to stop zinc rot. It is not going well. My results so far: The corrosion is mostly gone and the cent turns pinkish.

I've had similar results with copper cents.

I'm probably/most likely wasting my time but I studied experimental design for two years in college and I really can't stop myself. LOL
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A long time ago and as a Chemistry project, numerous Lincoln Cents were dissolved in Sulfuric Acid. The reactions was done to create CuSO4 in H OH or water. The solution was filtered numerously and then left to evaporate. The resulting Blue CuSO4 or Copper Sulfate Crystals were really fantastic. Got a good grade on that project and no one except me know it was coins used not a copper bar.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16826 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If I have a silver dollar in vg condition, and it has some ashy stuff on it, are you telling me that someone ten years from now would know the difference if I washed it off under the faucet instead of in a cup of distilled water? Perhaps there's a delayed reaction thing I don't understand yet.

There isn't really a "delayed reaction" for silver; the main reason to avoid tap water for silver is to avoid the dissolved salts in tap water precipitating out on the coin when the water dries. But there is a worrying "delayed reaction" for copper: tap water has been shown to catalyse the formation and progression of aggressive verdigris, or bronze disease.

As for the philosophical question: if we're talking about a coin that's already environmentally damaged, or a coin rescued from the melting pot, then I don't think anyone has any problems using it for science. A coin pulled from circulation is a slightly different matter - a coin might be common and mundane today, but just remember that in a hundred years time, the future owners of your experiments might be cursing your bones for what you did to "their" otherwise attractive coin.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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scottk's Avatar
United States
767 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2014  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scottk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, when I was a teenager I thought that at this point in my life I would be snowboarding in the Alps with a couple of high tech weapons - on the trail of a would be terrorist/assassin with some Russian model waiting on me to pick her up for a cheese and wine date with the prime minister and his wife.

Instead, I am at home scrubbing a nickel with a toothbrush.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2014  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The potential value of a coin should be your guide as to what level of respect you need to adhere to, when deciding to clean it or not clean it.
Most ancient ancient coins have been cleaned at some stage or other, almost always to their benefit, but there always risks involved; experience is essential, best left to the professionals.

For mine, a common date silver dollar in VG condition is 'open slather' to any method you may wish to clean it. It is safe to assume that it will loose very little value, if any at all.
I would probably just clean such a coin using plain old soap 'n water with my fingers, under a running faucet. I have to admit, I have cleaned quite a few coins in this way, and I can't see that I have caused any further damage, even decades down the track after cleaning.

For other than ancient coins*, where cleaning presents even the tiniest of threats to decrease the value, don't clean them!
Plain old common sense should apply.

*see above.

Nevertheless, you can have lots of fun experimenting with coins. That includes heat treatments, chemicals and plating.
Perhaps you could even learn something! For example, I have learned how to not burn by fingers, using heat treatment!.

If Mint employees can have a bit of fun and tomfoolery with coins, why can't we?
Lots of examples of fun with coins have been reported here on the CCF. For instance, how about Araditing a quarter to the footpath, or parking a car on top of a five dollar note?

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