Geneva Thaler 1722 KM# 69 - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 9 / Views: 1,881
diatonix Valued Member Norway 89 Posts	Posted 12/17/2014 07:12 am Any experts on Swiss thalers out there? I have in my collection a Geneva thaler, 1722. KM#69. Unfortunately, it's most probably a bad apple, almost 4 gr. underweight without any visible damage accounting for such a significant loss of weight. Moreover, I find it very strange that the item shows a reeded edge. Comments are very much appreciated! Report this Post to the Staff

wonghinghi Pillar of the Community Hong Kong 1270 Posts	Posted 12/17/2014 07:53 am Hello diatonix, why don't post some photos here for discussion? This is likely a norm in a coin forum. Henry Report this Post to the Staff
Medieval Pillar of the Community 3772 Posts	Posted 12/17/2014 07:58 am Quote: Moreover, I find it very strange that the item shows a reeded edge. Comments are very much appreciated! Might be a replica. Report this Post to the Staff
diatonix Valued Member Norway 89 Posts	Posted 12/17/2014 11:14 am Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 12/17/2014 10:15 pm You do not have to be an expert in Swiss coinage to realize that this coin is a numismatic forgery - 4 grams is an impossible weight loss for a Dollar sized coin of any type - it would be worn to AG. Silver coins in the era of full value silver coins had low relief designed to wear to a very low unacceptable grade after about a 6% weight loss. That is the point they were removed from circulation to be melted and re-coined. Secondly in 1722 there were no close or closed collar coinage presses at all. The coin is reeded which requires a CLOSED collar press. There is no option here - this is simply impossible. This coin was cast and then the reeds were applied using a ring die technique - a typical Chinese or eastern European forgery technique. Add to those two very damning facts the general appearance of the coin itself and I can state with 100% assurance that the coin is a Forgery - NOT a counterfeit a Class 3 Numismatic Forgery. It is barely collectable even for a collector of counterfeits like myself. It is essentially worthless. Edited by swamperbob 12/17/2014 10:17 pm Report this Post to the Staff
diatonix Valued Member Norway 89 Posts	Posted 12/18/2014 04:03 am That was my thought too. Thanks, Swamperbob! Report this Post to the Staff
Silver Oldie New Member United States 4 Posts	Posted 12/25/2014 11:04 pm I agree on the forgery issue. My geneva 1722 Thaler weighs 26.35gm in VF+ and the edge is not reeded. It has dots in shallow moats pattern all around. Have you tested it with a magnet? Also, the top of the head on the left double eagle covers up the corner of the crown. Even the sloppiest of Swiss diemakers wouldn't have gotten away with this. Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 12/26/2014 2:24 pm HMMM ... in some ways I like this piece as an illustration. If you send it to me I will put in my new book. I will pay you postage via Paypal plus $10 U.S.. Just contact me privately but clicking my user name to the left. To me it looks late 19thC or v.early 20thC - besides I would like to illustrate one coin from Switzerland in my new book coming out in 2017 on Foreign CCs and other topics. John Lorenzo Numismatist United States Report this Post to the Staff
diatonix Valued Member Norway 89 Posts	Posted 12/26/2014 4:46 pm Sorry, I've reached an amicable agreement with the seller, which means it's currently on its way back to him. Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 12/26/2014 8:11 pm No problem. Particularly if you paid allot - obviously. Generally - I don't see many older pre-1800 Swiss type CCs. Not that I am really looking ... JPL Report this Post to the Staff
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