An Early Maria Theresa Thaler Restrike - H35

There is a pdf which might shed some light on it: http://www.numismatik-cafe.at/downl....php?id=7722
Interesting information on your type in there.

JUst for every one else's benefit: Hafner says the coin is MIlan based on the 1976 work of Dr Franz Leypold. Hafner published in 1984. In 1986/7 (I am going from memory) Dr Leypold published an article updating his research. In that update he acknowledges the work of MR Broome and accepts that H35 is from Florence. If we were to be strict we wouldn't describe H35 as a restrike but instead describe it as a counterfeit. Florence is the most likely mint, as such the coin would have been struck without Austrian Habsburg approval. It is therefore a Napoleonic state counterfeit( of correct weight and silver content) As for the "ST". NO one knows what it stands for. I have to get to Florence to check but in other literature quoting the Florentine mint records there is an interesting fragment Which says the Coin has the initials "S.F." standing for Series Fecit. ( translates as Series made this coin/engraving). Series is the probable engraver. I am pretty sure the authors citing that fragment weren't familiar with the MTT. MY speculation is they confused the ST with the proper Mint Signature SF and read an "F" in the records where they should had read "T" ( its an easy mistake with old hand written documents). So my speculation is the engraver to ensure the Austrian habsburgs wouldn't have a legal standing added ST ( for Series Fecit) to clearly identify the coin from Austrian made examples. He would have used the last letter of Fecit to ensure it wasn't SF/SF which would have been confusing. I repeat this is pure speculation but it is the only possibility that fits the currently known facts. This variety was first struck in 1814 and its very existence challenges Hafners date attribution of the other so called Italian mint MTT). The coin was produced before Venice and Milan started production of the type. The current Numismatist has an article outlining the other evidence that Hafners attributions are incorrect.

Henry its a very nice example I have 11 or so and only two are close to the condition of yours. Hafner talks about only two varieties . MY 11 examples show there are probably five varieties made from 3 die sets.

Nice coin Henry - great that it is a counterfeit.

Wouldn't really call it a counterfeit but rather imitation coinage (the ST letters make it different from the original if not sanctioned).

Its not a good idea to get tied up in knots over the term counterfeit. My comment came from considerable research and a need to accurately understand the different varieties.

I think class 2 counterfeit is the best way to describe it. Don't worry about the word counterfeit to many people think counterfeit= worthless. class 2 counterfeit dutch lion thalers produced in Italian mints are phenomenally rare and fetch prices in the range of US$1000 - US$20,000.

I do have to admit with the MTT it is very confusing. I regard the coin posted in this thread as a counterfeit because the florence mint had no legal standing to produce the coin( under contemporary international law. But the MTT produced by London, Paris, Belgium, Calcutta and bombay I would regard as genuine. the reason being is due to a legal mistake by the Austrians. After the 1st world war the austrians forgot to include the MTT in their monetary legislation. They then handed the minting rights over to the italians effectively, under international legal principles(no applicable international law at that time) surrendering the right to the MTT. There was a Private Swiss striking in 1937 but I would regard that as a class II counterfeit because it was deemed illegal ( which it was) and the Swiss government seized the dies( they hadn't authorised it). From a collecting point of view this seems complicated and confusing...but in understanding the story of the MTT such definitions enhance the coins' story. The ST/SF variant is rare ( R5 on the 1-7 scale) and understanding that it was made without Austrian Habsburg authority just makes the coin more desirable. The coin Henry posted has a value in the range US$500 -US$1000.