1836 Ga-Fs 8 Reales

I have in my collection a near perfect silver forgery of this same coin. It was quite a problem about 15 years ago and bunch hit the market all in a short period of time. I was involved in the initial discovery. There are a few markers on the forgery that are NEVER seen on originals.

I located only a few poor quality pictures taken between 1997 and 1999 long before I had a decent camera. My coin is in the bank and would take quite a bit of effort to find it right now.

I do recall the key diagnostics of the forgery.

The first is clear on your coin and it is the shape of the die chip between the F and S. The match is perfect to the forgery. The chip is slightly larger than it should be.

The second and third clues were VERY small but absolutely conclusive as proof of forgery. Unless the forgers corrected their plastic molds the details will be there. You will need at least a 30X binocular scope.

Look between the upper rays (near the tips as I recall on the left side of the cap) for a closed loop of solid silver lint (raised above the field) and a closed bottom loop on the surface of one of the dentils in the area below the date area that violates the laws of physics by crossing flow lines with no interruption of the lines.

There were a few other clues (pieces of raised metal dust particles and some minor repeated damage) but my e-mails from that era were lost in a computer crash over a decade ago. There is a hard copy of my report someplace in a 20x10 storage unit that contains over 480 storage boxes.

Sorry I can not be of more detailed help but I have not seen an example of the forgery since 1999. I recall that a very black copy existed which was sold to a dealer in Northern Mexico for several hundred dollars. I wonder if it could be the same coin only cleaned. Write to me off the forum and I will send the best pictures I have.

What grabs my attention with respect to this specimen are the apparent large raised lumps of metal, one at the top of the long ray at about 10 o'clock, and the other in the middle of the short ray at about 11 o'clock. Are these the "typical obverse die flaws" to which you refer?

Also, do you attribute the lack of detail in the eagle's body to the "weak striking" that you mention? Otherwise, the wear to that side seems clearly disproportionate to that of the other, which can be taken as a diagnostic of a forgery.

I know less than 1% of what Robert does about these, but if I had come across this coin, those would be the observations that would've given me pause.

Incidentally, have you weighed it or determined a specific gravity?

Like I said the coin was VERY deceptive. It was the correct density and weight. The tiny looped lint features and surface anomalies associated with a pressure casting were the only issues. You can not really see them with a 20x loop. You need higher power and binocular vision to be sure the features are raised. However, the fact that we discovered 6 or 8 examples nearly identical examples with the same wear in very close proximity by time was critical.

As to the comment that more recently the coin had become more common - I am not able to say for sure but it might be a reason.