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A Curious Moral Quandary About Counterfeit Coins...

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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2015  11:51 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
... and the newly-passed Collectible Coin Protection Act.

I'm not a fan of it, mind, as there are provisions that make my particular niche in the hobby much more inconvenient (and there is a bit of thought-police-ish language thrown in, too). However, it got me thinking.

Extending the Hobby Protection Act on a number of fronts, this new section was added in:


Quote:
(d) Provision of Assistance or Support.--It shall be a violation
of subsection (a) or (b) for a person to provide substantial assistance
or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller if that person
knows or should have known that the manufacturer, importer, or seller
is engaged in any act or practice that violates subsection (a) or
(b).


Which gave birth to the following hypothetical exercise:

1) Say one were to purchase an unmarked counterfeit on ebay offered by a seller from China under the guise of a genuine item.

2) Then say, after confirming that it's fake, that person were to file a SNAD claim.

3) If asked to return the items, could they then claim something to the effect of,

"Now that I have confirmed that these items are fake, I cannot return these coins to the seller. That would be giving 'substantial support' to a counterfeiter which is against Federal law, as they could just turn around and try and sell them again."?

Now:

If it worked, I wonder if this were to happen often enough that such manufacturers would be persuaded to leave ebay alone. For good.

Thoughts? Discuss.
Edited by SteveCaruso
01/06/2015 11:52 am
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tokenmast's Avatar
United States
648 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2015  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tokenmast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NICE !

like the (16 in a stack) rare date Morgans

Might just work!
Rest in Peace
Buddy's Avatar
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2015  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"knows, or should have known" Sheesh!


This is one of those laws that is simply used to add to the list of violations with which a criminal can be charged if and when the criminal is caught. With a lot of charges, one or two are bound to stick.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4591 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2015  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There was another thread that basically asked if the changes also impacted ebay as a "safe harbor" and would require them to more actively police sales.

no clue yet
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2015  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, ebay certainly meets the "should have known" criteria. They nixed their panel of experts. :-)
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2015  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Even before the new legislation ebay would often reimburse the buyer and not require the buyer to return counterfeit material. (Of course this also opened up a new scam where the buyer receives a genuine coin, reports it as counterfeit, gets reimbursed and gets to keep the genuine coin as well.)
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2015  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Conder101 - Aye I've seen that particular scam play out before. Or even more brazen: Someone who bought a genuine item and returned a counterfeit.
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