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Dipping

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Pytellc's Avatar
469 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2015  2:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Pytellc to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Ive seen the term "over-dipping" a lot on this site. I understand the definition, but I'mcurious if there is a right way to dip a coin. Or is dipping a coin at all bad?
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Celticsoul's Avatar
United States
1566 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2015  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Celticsoul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A lot of coins get dipped even today I am sad to say. Dipping basically involves dipping the coin in a mild acid to remove toning. Unfortunately it also removes microscopic amounts of metal too. If a coin had been dipped once or twice most collectors can live with the results. It's when a coin gets dipped again and again that coins lose their luster or frosty shine. Coins that have been over dipped have a dull white look to them because too much metal has been removed. This is what we mean by over dipped. After collecting for a while you'll be able to spot over dipped coins too.
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SeatedNut's Avatar
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 Posted 01/26/2015  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only clear-cut answer to your question is -- it depends. Ugly, unattractive toning would be the only reason I would even consider it and then, it depends on the coin. I've dipped some ASE's that blackened due to improper storage, but I would never attempt with a high-end key date.

As already mentioned, coin dip is acidic and removes small amounts of metal along with the undesirable toning. On an uncirculated coin the first thing to go is mint frost or luster. Over-dipping removes all the frost and you end up with a lusterless coin. We call a coin overdipped when we see one that is obviously uncirculated or high AU and it looks flat and no remaining luster, even in the recesses.

In order for us to give the best advice we would need to know (or see) the coin you are considering. Blanket approval/disapproval is irresponsible from a numismatic perspective.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2015  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dipping is numismatic Russian Roulette. A given coin can only stand a certain number of seconds in dip before it's ruined forever, that amount of time differs for each coin and you can't tell that limit has been reached until the coin is killed. If somebody already dipped it to within two seconds of that final moment, the effect is cumulative and you'll never know.
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biokemist6's Avatar
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 Posted 01/26/2015  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the biggest mistakes dippers make is not rinsing the coin after dipping, leaving acidic residue on the coin which will form spots over time. Another major mistake is dipping a coin with a very heavy patination, the removal of a thick oxidation layer will leave a coin with dull surfaces and no luster.

Not every coin with toning/tarnishing/patination is a good candidate for dipping. Many more coins are ruined by dipping than helped by dipping simply because the dipper did not properly choose a suitable candidate. The best candidates are uncirculated coins(gold, silver, and nickel alloys but not bronze/brass alloys) with light-medium patination. The best dip is the shortest one possible to remove the offending oxidation or fingerprint, longer is most definitely not better. Once a coin is dipped, it should be thoroughly rinsed with clean water(running tap water works fine) followed by a distilled water rinse and then acetone to remove any residual water.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2015  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I personally don't even contemplate it for a coin which I estimate will need more than three seconds in the dip. It can be diluted in water which slows the action, but the worries still apply.
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EarlyTurban's Avatar
United States
383 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2015  6:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EarlyTurban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since the bulk of my collection is early or branch mint gold, I avoid dipping at all costs. Dipping gold generally doesn't provide beneficial results... very risky to do as it tends to "brighten" the coin too much... yuk.

I prefer my gold with a little dirt anyway.

ET
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/26/2015  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, that too. Silver only; thiourea dislikes copper and is no better than soap & water for a noble metal like gold.
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jimbucks's Avatar
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 Posted 01/26/2015  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a crap shoot. I have dipped ugly toned PF-65 CAM Morgan dollars. One came out so nice it went into a PCGS PF-65 DCAM holder. The other ended up in a PCGS PF-65 holder. My technique is to dip as fast as possible and immediately rinse with DI water.

It's basically how lucky do you feel.

What I have found interesting is that dipped coins tend to retone right back the way the way they were prior to dipping over time. Not exactly sure why that is.

Edited by jimbucks
01/26/2015 7:21 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2015  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have warm water running at pretty good pressure ready for the instant the coin comes out of the dip. It helps to blast the acid off the coin, and the final step is an acetone rinse which drives the water off anyway.


Quote:

What I have found interesting is that dipped coins tend to retone right back the way the way they were prior to dipping over time. Not exactly sure why that is.


The metal, freshly-stripped, is far more susceptible to toning.
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Celticsoul's Avatar
United States
1566 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2015  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Celticsoul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The metal, freshly-stripped, is far more susceptible to toning

As a master machinist and life long metal worker I know this to be true. Toning and oxidation actually acts as a protective layer keeping the metal underneath the oxidation from corroding any further. By stripping away the oxidation you allow the fresh metal underneath to corrode as well, resulting in the drab over dipped coins we see all too often on the market. I personally would never dip a coin but to each their own.
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DoubleEagle20's Avatar
United States
1750 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2015  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DoubleEagle20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dipping does not benefit a coin in the vast majority of cases. There may be some coins that benefit, but they are in the extreme minority.
I try to steer clear of them, as they really look unoriginal and unappealing to me.
Edited by DoubleEagle20
02/02/2015 6:33 pm
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United States
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 Posted 02/02/2015  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The main problem here is it is not clear as to what a coin should, should not be dipped in. Dipping in distilled water, for example means little. Dipping in Acetone too means little. Dipping in strong acids or jewlery cleaners too can usually do some damage. Dipping a coin in all sorts of things people find to dip a coin in could be bad, very bad, have no effect.
The best thing is to just leave a coin alone.
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 Posted 02/03/2015  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you just wash a coin in a soap or detergent to remove grim? I know in antique business cleaning certain items is the kiss of death. Furniture, for example, is usually better with all the dirt and grim from a 150 years. Metals like silver I don't know. People polish silver, but is that horrible for silver coins since most are only 90% silver at best? I look at my EF half dollar and I think it would almost look like AU if it was clean, but maybe not.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2015  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cleaning is anathema in numismatics. This is a large hobby, though, and like other endeavors there are outlying cases which deserve further scrutiny and discussion. It's the nature of a Forum like this that we'd end up spending disproportionate time on the outliers, because a positive decision to conserve (note my use of the term) still invokes a "do the least harm" protocol. We need to clearly delineate this process for all reading, so we tend to be verbose on the subject.

So don't clean your coins.
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United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2015  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From Dave's lips to God's ear "Don't clean your coins". I think I got that now. That is good information for me, so thanks.

J. King
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