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1866-S $20 Gold Or How To Turn $17k Into $33k

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Pillar of the Community

861 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  5:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add g048406 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I WISH I had some friends at NGC:
1866-s $20 Gold NGC AU cleaned:
http://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-dou.../1212-3854.s

2 weeks later, the same coin
1866-s NGC AU-50 on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1866-S-20-G...047675.l2557

Coin is clearly cleaned with hairlines above Lady Liberty and on the reverse around twenty etc.
I guess it's not what you know, it's WHO you know.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. You gotta lay that all in NGC's lap.
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scottk's Avatar
United States
767 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scottk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Never bought a slabbed coin before.

And for that...

I am proud.
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conspiracy theories not withstanding, should a future buyer feel the coin is overgraded/should have been graded as a details coin, wouldn't they be covered under the appearance review guarantee from NGC?
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denco7's Avatar
United States
2543 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the world of subjective grading. Why is it that people think that the TPG graders are "coin gods" who are never wrong, never inconsistent and the most knowledgable people in the coin industry. I could hand pick at least 50 people on this sight alone, that could do a better job at grading coins than the people at TPGs.

Grading is an opinion by one man/woman. Based in strict guidelines, but an opinion none the less. There a many .... many extremely knowledgable and experienced people on the this site, but put a coin up for grading here and see how many different opinions you get. I would have called the original details/cleaned designation questionable. I might have called it details/graffiti.
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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7616 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nothing surprises me with the TPG's.... Especially when money is involved.

My question is how did the "cleaning" magically "disappear".

Sure would be nice to see how NGC would explain it.
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Moe145's Avatar
United States
8904 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I echo SsuperDdave: Wow.

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DoubleEagle20's Avatar
United States
1748 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DoubleEagle20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really hafta look a coin over when it's in NGC plastic, less so with PCGS. The CAC green bean I have a lot more trust in it.
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Celticsoul's Avatar
United States
1566 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Celticsoul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's pretty sad when you have to pay to get a coin slabbed and then pay to get a CAC bean too. I say to HE double hockey sticks with the TPGs.
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damcon3's Avatar
United States
93 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add damcon3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the cleaning is more apparent from the ebay pictures. Either way coin appears to have way to many marks to be considered AU.
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Buddy's Avatar
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sitting here shaking my head. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. TPG's have nothing BUT their reputations...and that doesn't seem to matter to them.
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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7616 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sent NGC the link to this thread.... Maybe they'll show up, but I doubt it.
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's even more alarming is that you can even call that coin AU. In the real world that thing is rare maybe , but AU hardly. Before so called Market grading, this would be a classic ExF coin. IMHO.
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Brian34Jersey's Avatar
United States
234 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brian34Jersey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought a coin from this seller actually. They had good feedback. I don't think I'll buy another coin from them after this thread. It seems the seller has a brother in law with the company

Pretty compelling discovery though hats off to the Internet genius that figured this out.
Edited by Brian34Jersey
01/29/2015 8:23 pm
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damcon3's Avatar
United States
93 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add damcon3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am very interested to hear if NGC responds.
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt they will. Why should they? They're not liable for fraud. Grading is "subjective". And the few people who may never send to them again won't make a bit of difference to their revenue. They're in business and the executives have plausible deniability and if the relative of the relative at NGC is beneath executive level they will lose their job for NGC to save face.
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