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 Replies: 17 / Views: 4,251 |
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Valued Member
Canada
491 Posts |
Edited by Strach-Man
02/20/2015 11:50 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
Probably is technically. No net grading here though.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5400 Posts |
Really. What else would you call it?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1431 Posts |
Looks like a big blob of corrosion around the second A of Canada. If that doesn't merit a drop in "technical" grade, I don't know what should.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5590 Posts |
There had to be something in the comments section. ICCS is a "technical" grader where eye appeal has nothing to do with the grade; only wear, field chinks, and portrait dings.
Edited by okiecoiner
02/20/2015 1:15 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts |
I would say it is a MS-64 technically but it looks horrible..  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1431 Posts |
Quote:
There had to be something in the comments section There was, but it says nothing about the corrosion 311298329318Edited by Kefiroth
02/20/2015 1:44 pm
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Valued Member
50 Posts |
I total agree this is a bad grade assigning on this coin and I don't care about what anybody they say about "technical" grade it is what it is no? Would you buy this paper with the cup of coffee spill all over it or go across the street and buy the same one but without all the smear? But now you that you bring it up in the forum I'm sure your gonna get that guy that own this and is selling he will be mad at with you bigtime :(The big dealer don't want us to talk about this pink elephant what is in the room what all of us know that the monopoly of the big TPG they just play the favorite and don't really cared about the little guy! I am look at high grade coin in the ICCS plastic all of the time for many years and its not even funnied how much discrepancies you will see for yourself - some of it is maybe they are in just too muich of a hurry to do a good job but some of it is that they give their buddy the best customer the break on the grade no? Like I said what in the other post about the TPG stuff: Quote:This TPG guys the cost sometimes a lot of money with the mistake - I have see so many coin in the ICCS package that is no way even close to what is wrote on them - and even with that Landon collection if you look and they have reall good the pictures you can see that lot s that were give MS65 were not better no way than MS64.
But what if the guy he buy becauswe it say 65 and with the rare coin when its really maybe only the 64 it is worth $1000 less than he paid no?
Like I said before ONE DAY WE ALL GONNA PAID THE PIPER ON THIS MESS :(
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5400 Posts |
@Gilles Pavot Drapeau no I am sure not going to mad at anyone for constructive criticism. We own the piece and have dealt with the OP/ poller in the past. The coins in this sale were graded for the most part quite fairly in our opinion. The reason we listed this piece is for the variety more than for grade or the eye appeal. Yes I know the coin has negative eye appeal and the spots alluded to probably will come off . That said it is still a technical 64 for grade (that is how ICCS grades). Also we have priced it based on past experience and yes it will probably sell to a large cent variety guy. We are certainly not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
ICCS grades using technical grades. Not eye appeal. Just because a coin is a "high grade" doesn't necessarily mean that it is an attractive coin.
The flipside of ICCS grading is PCGS/NGC that attempt to market grade. Under this system some coins have their grade increased or decreased due to their toning and "look" above and beyond their technical grade.
There are pros and cons under both systems. Personally, I like the ICCS system where it is up to the buyer if they want to pay a premium (or get a discount) for a coin with better/worse eye appeal. Because beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. Some people like blast white coins, some like toning, some like only certain types of toning, some don't mind spots or other issues, etc.
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Moderator
Canada
10459 Posts |
When it comes to bronze, and examining coins in ICCS flips, I rarely even look at the grade or the certificate...
The first question I ask myself is, "What would PCGS grade this as?" and trust my own eyes. I suspect given the age of the hoard, and if PCGS agreed with the provenance, they would grade it with the spots (instead of calling it Genuine). It most definitely would not be graded Red, and since eye appeal counts with PCGS (up to a full grade point), it would get MS-62 or MS-63 Red Brown.
When it comes to eye appeal, most Canadian dealers know a really nice coin from an ugly duckling, and usually are taking that into consideration with the price. Hugh Powell is a perfect example, he knows that when it comes to mint state bronze, that eye appeal can really factor into the price - that means some people can get put off by his prices, but his response is usually, "Try and find a nicer example in the same grade"...
ICCS graded a ton of those coins, in a short amount of time... for a big client (Chuck Moore), so that is why I know several collectors who flew to the auction in person, rather than buy any coin sight unseen...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2426 Posts |
Is it possible that the flip is damaged and this coin has been exposed to environmental issues?
Just a thought...
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Valued Member
50 Posts |
To the Pac coin guy is good you don't want to be the mad because life its just too short for that stuffed anyhow :)
And anyway I don't think the poster was making the fun to laugh about you but was to say that ICCS was the funny one and not you are try to pool any wool down on anybody else.
But I still don't like this talk about all the "technical" maybe that's what the scientist type guy that are collector they think but most of us who are the buying want to think that the grade assigned is equal to the amount of the dollar value for that grade.
And its important that people learn like you explaind it that this is not the case as you are right an ugly looking coin that is not worth as much might be give a grade that is higher because of the "technicality".
[size=2]I JUST DONT THINK THIS IS PROPER THOUGH when we are dealing with thing of value and may cause some inexperience buyer to trust that the grade as it is on the plastic is equal to the price it should be selled for.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5400 Posts |
@ DD no the flip is not damaged the stuff is on the coin. Fairly easy to remove it if one wanted to. Coins such as pictured just seem to charge up that old debate about grading. There are definitely two camps on the grading of coins. The technical side and the market grading side. There is no easy answer. As I said earlier the interesting part of this one is the double and triple punching on all the 888 in the date. We have five other 1888 from the same lot in the Landon sale and they are all 64 graded coins as well. All laid out there are some beauties and some not so pretty.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1949 Posts |
Obviously this seems to bring up the old debate between PCGS and ICCS.
Technical grading notwithstanding, I have a feeling in hand the coin more than likely looks ALOT better. You have to remember, the ICCS flips do not make it easy convey the in-hand look, the two layers of plastic seem to make any distracting element highlighted and dull good cartwheel luster.
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Valued Member
50 Posts |
[size=2]Re what the jderm guy he said - you make a good point but there is also same countered point with that argument because MAYBE IT MIGHT LOOK WORSED underedneath all that plastics no?
I have take a lotta them ICCS coin out of there slip and there are a lot the time that I wish I had not because of there are big mistake that you could not see through the plastic - and again this talk to the big question about how come why they can certify that a coin is a higher grade when it is not?[/size=2]
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Replies: 17 / Views: 4,251 |
Posted 02/20/2015 12:08 pm
