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 Replies: 17 / Views: 2,820 |
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Valued Member
United States
73 Posts |
ive tried searching these forums and the web and cant find a thread specific to this question: how are coins valued? i know grade, cleaned, intrinsic, key dates, age, type, and even the design on the coin all play a role into the value of a coin. but how do books like red/blue/krause or these grey sheets come up with a 200 year old coin being worth 5k in this condition or 30k in slightly better? or how ive seen two coins that are the same except one year apart. the first will be worth more than the second at XF but the latter will be worth more in MS60 (random example from RedBook there's several in it). is this data taken from auction history? because sometimes it seems like its taken from a board they throw darts at. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1959 Posts |
Good old supply and demand to put it simply. The true test is realized price data. The books aren't always right. In fact, the Red Book can be WAY off. You have to get a feel for what different coins are trading for and follow the trends. Feedback from dealers is also used. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
You decide the value, based on what you're willing to pay. That's it. Coin prices are buyer-driven, and the only accurate determiner of a coin's value is what people will pay for it today. Published price guides are partly experience - knowing what people are willing to pay - and partly optimism because the publisher has a stake in prices being up. Everybody who publishes price lists has a vested interest in high pricing, if only because it makes their product (the price list) more valuable because more money is at stake. Furthermore, numismatically-speaking it's quite normal to reach beyond expected pricing for the right coin, or to offer less than grade price for a lesser example. If you want a Seated Half this week, look at last week's ebay sales and Heritage Auctions results. For a given coin, chances are you can find 10 solid online dealers to compare what they're asking with each other, and what they're selling for. It is the best time in history to be a buyer of collectible coins; the market has never been so large nor real-time information more accessible. A short learning curve can put you far ahead of any published price list, and that's necessary because it's what we're all doing.  |
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Valued Member
 United States
73 Posts |
thanks for the responses. I was just curious why two coins from the same year that may have had a slight difference would be priced differently when a book would list both mintages as unknown. I'munfamiliar with heritage auction but ive heard it mentioned several times, I guess ill check into it to see. while I'mnot terribly interested in turning a profit I want to know I'mgetting a decent deal if its not something I'mparticularly looking for to fill a set
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1192 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Numismedia is the best of them, I agree. Heritage is a huge auction house with a database of coin sales going back 25 years, and access is free. All you have to do is register. If their kind of coins (basically slabbed, $100 & up) are your interest, no better place to see what your competition is willing to pay.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
You have to remember that coins are an item that has no manufacturers suggested retail price. The only real value of a coin is what it says on the coin. By that I mean a Quarter is only $0.25, 25 pennies, 2 Dimes and a Nickel, etc. Other than that, that quarter is worth what someone will pay for it. That is the same with all coins. Stamps are like that too. A 5 Cent stamp is only 5 Cents unless someone tells you it is for sale for $100.00 Coin prices are mostly based on a lot of guess work by people that make price Guides. Some like the Red Book are just guesses at what a coin may, might, could, should, would be worth. If I try to sell you a coin that is worth one dollar for a hundred and you pay that, oh well, that does happen. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
I was just curious why two coins from the same year that may have had a slight difference would be priced differently You may be seeing a case of grade rarity. For example the 1884 S Morgan dollar, in grades of Xf and below it is easy to find examples, But when you try an find an AU coin they are a LOT harder to find and MS coins are very difficult so that slight differnce in grade from AU to MS results in a big change in value. Not how do the dealers and collectors know about this? Experience over the years seeing how often the coins come along. Then dealers and collectors are willing to pay more for those coins in the grades where they are seldom seen. The price guide then pick up on this as well and it gets reported as higher price jumps in those grades. |
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Valued Member
United States
381 Posts |
One thing that you forgot is supply and demand. Some coins have extremely low mintages, but they're only worth a few bucks since no one really collects them. I found a good example of this on youtube. A guy cherry picked a silver coin from a dealer junk bin that had a mintage of just a little over 100,000, but it's only worth it's silver value. And yes, I do agree with Ddave. A coin is only worth what the buyer will pay for it.
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Valued Member
United States
166 Posts |
I find that if you are seeking a seldom seen coin, or a coin in a seldom seen condition, the price guides become less relevent. I am very fussy about eye appeal, and am willing to pay a bit over listed values. The dealers know when they have a difficult to find coin, and they hold out for guys like me. This is not meant to imply that I ignore listed values, but I recognize that they are average prices, and should be viewed in that light. Also,some coins, such as business strike Civil War silver dollars, trade so infrequently that the price guides are not as relevent.
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
Coins are like a stock shares, it is only worth what someone else is willing to pay,It could be either gold or silver a $100 face or .01 face, if there is no buyers,there ya go!
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Valued Member
United States
73 Posts |
thanks for the replies guys some good info. while I understand something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, its still difficult for me to realize something value to avoid being ripped off either in buying or selling. for instance I looked up a 1940 dime I have that seems absolutely flawless to me (would upload pic if I had a camera) and was thinking of trading it in for something else. I went to heritage's site to compare values on some of the higher end and noticed two of the exact same coins going for different values. http://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dim...a/388-1165.shttp://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dim.../a/402-481.si know these are pre 2008 sales and even if my coin was this grade it probably wouldnt be worth that but these coins look the same to me and sold within half a year of each other. yet one is twice the price as the other. hows it even possible to "get an idea" when it seems like the value of these are left to the gamble of a bidding war? or do you just look at all sold recently and take an average? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
Coins are like a stock shares, it is only worth what someone else is willing to pay, But they are also quite different because as long as they are the same stock, one share of a stock is exactly like any other share and they all have exactly the same value. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Ben89, those are a good example of some of the complexities of buying coins. They share a major auction house, similar transactions chronologically, and we can stipulate they're not tied to the price of silver. The PCGS coin benefited from two major advantages. First, the "PCGS Premium" due to market perception. Second, a major live sale where the winner could physically view the coin, and the deep pockets came out to play. The NGC coin was an Internet-only auction in the early days of Internet-only auctions. It got 4 bidders and a lot of views, but not many people interested in writing the check. Note I never even looked at the coins. The NGC coin might have been superior, and could have been snagged and crossed into PCGS. Which is where the complexities come in - prices are only consistent to the extent that you, the collector, are able to leverage your knowledge to vary those prices at the times which benefit you. The better you get, the less those prices matter because you're going to confidently spend what you think the coin is worth and if you don't get that one you'll just await the next. Stick around. This is what we teach here. |
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Valued Member
United States
73 Posts |
great info superdave I didnt even notice how they were sold that does make sense. thank you good sir
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Sometimes, what you might see in an auction result is a savvy collector reaching a little higher for a coin they know to be a perfect fit. "I like it" is a perfectly good reason to spend too much on a coin, within reason. Other times, someone new to the game bids beyond their head (and reason) leading to an outlier sale. A big breaking news story at the wrong moment can blow an auction by distracting bidders. There are two skills to be learned here, in order to make best use of all this information. First, of course, grading. Second and most importantly, grading from images and evaluating the images themselves. Numismatics has always been a hobby of knowledge and never has it been more vital or more available. We live in interesting times. |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 2,820 |
Posted 02/23/2015 1:52 pm
