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1863 Indian Head Cent Concerns

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35 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  11:12 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add dstring26 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I had just purchased an 1863 Indian Head cent and I have a few concerns about the coin.

1. The coin is 4.71 grams, the book states it should be 4.67 grams.
2. The coins diameter is 19.18 millimeters, but the book says it should be 19.00 millimeters.
3. The coins thickness is 2.09 millimeters, but I have found that the thickness is 2.33 millimeters.
4. The coin is not magnetic.

My concern is that this coin is fake because it only passed one of 4 tests. There are pictures below if someone could give me some more information about this coin it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

1863-Indian-Head-Cent-Concerns

1863-Indian-Head-Cent-Concerns
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Celticsoul's Avatar
United States
1566 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Celticsoul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe I'm wrong but face just looks off. I've been collecting Indian Heads for 30 years and it just looks fishy. Another thing is the dark color. This coin is supposed to be copper-nickel which is lighter in color than bronze. Maybe some of the other Indian head collectors can give you a better idea but to me this one stinks.
New Member
35 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dstring26 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The color is right led lighting was used to take the picture that's why it seems to be darker.
Valued Member
109 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add valleyco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks cleaned to me, but I don't see any obvious indications that it is counterfeit. It looks like it might have damage above the headdress. That date is common enough that you should be able to find one you like without too much difficulty. Unless you got it really cheap, send it back and look for another.
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beaglebailey's Avatar
United States
716 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add beaglebailey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have any information on the tolerance limits on weight and diameter of planchets used for all U.S. coins although I am sure that information is available somewhere. I am guessing that your coin falls within those limits. Remember, just a coin could lose weight as it wears, the accumulation of grime over the years could add a little bit of weight.

I don't see anything about your coin that screams counterfeit, but I agree that it is not a very attractive coin. I would send it back if you can.
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35 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dstring26 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I only paid $4.95 total with buyers premium at and auction for the coin. It just seemed odd that the dimensions and weight were a little off.
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beaglebailey's Avatar
United States
716 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add beaglebailey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For $4.95 you did fine. Keep it.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one is a good illustration of how "grading" and "grading from images" are entirely different animals.

First, the color is obviously a bit off as one can see in the background. It's an odd color - bet you don't have a sheet of paper that color in the house - so the observer immediately knows the color of the coin is off as well. A reasonable assumption is that the background is white and the white balance is too blue. As a result, the coin is too dark and not red enough to reflect reality. It's a correction one needs to learn to make when evaluating imagery.

Another correction is necessary when the coin is angled in the images. Macro photography compresses perspective, and positional relationships are distorted. It's an extra burden when things like date location and letter lineups are necessary for authentication.

Imagery such as this presents its' limitations immediately and you know you have to make corrections for it. The challenge is doing the best you can while knowing you can't be sure because you know the image is trying to lie to you.
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mysilveryears's Avatar
United States
1888 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2015  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mysilveryears to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's easy enough to get the blue out*.
This looks more natural but still a bit dark for an 1863.

1863-Indian-Head-Cent-Concerns

*www.irfanview.com = best FREE quick'n'easy image editing program on the web.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2015  04:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
.05 grams off the "official" weight is not something to be concerned about, especially when the tolerance range o the weight is probably .1 grams +/- or a little more. So a genuine piece direct fro the mint could weigh as much as 4.77 grams.
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2015  04:48 am  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Under $5!
Keep it. IMHO, it is genuine. Just a details coin.
Score!
swcoin.ecrater.com
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