Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsVancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Are These Three 8 Reales All Of The Same Type?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 1,482Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2015  01:22 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
There are three coins posted on ebay that I thought would be interesting to evaluate.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371280068581 1777 Mo FF

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191529794401 1777 Mo FF

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321692834574 1788 Mo FM

These are all classic.
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
Pillar of the Community
MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2015  02:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For most (except the 3rd one, which is of another type - seems cast) - they are struck copies made from an original coin).
The denticles stopping short being the easiest hint.

Robert, would you mind posting those on the Facebook group ? (or I'll do it, but as they are your finds it's better imho :D )
Edited by MathieuMa
03/13/2015 02:50 am
Pillar of the Community
wonghinghi's Avatar
Hong Kong
1270 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2015  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wonghinghi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the second one, 1777 Mo FF is different from others. It is not a cast copy but is still a modern forgery.
Pillar of the Community
wonghinghi's Avatar
Hong Kong
1270 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2015  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wonghinghi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The edge picture of the second 1777 Mo FF discloses the coin is fake. The edge looks very stiff, not as "lively" as in a real 8R. Is the edge minted after the planchet is struck?
Pillar of the Community
Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2015  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Authenticity issues aside, the description of some of these coins as being "high grade" is just laughable.
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
03/13/2015 6:23 pm
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2015  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are actually quite a few problems with these coins.

Lets start with the first three coins I listed. As noted above they are two different types. The 1788 is a very crude cast copy in white metal - rather likely zinc mixed with tin or lead - which even shows traces of a sprue (directly above the crown on the reverse) and possibly a raised edge seam (near the REX on the reverse). I called attention to this one because it is also an example of the "keyhole & porthole" variety discussed in a thread some time ago. It is the kind of a coin that is very easily spotted as a forgery and even a novice should realize something is wrong if they have the coin in hand. The fields are irregular and the features are rounded with no sharp delineations. This coin is about worthless.

The others are actually cast copies in my opinion and I will tell you why. The proof is found on the two copies of the 1777 Mo FF that were posted by different people. The versions of the coins are made from different molds based on the mold damage visible. The easiest way to demonstrate this is to look at the pair side by side. Make full size copies of both files and open each one on 1/2 of your computer screen. Look at the A in HISPAN for one clear example of damage. The coin posted by AGM89-90 has a very clear scratch in the mold surface that transfers to the coin as a raised line running through the A. The coin posted by darek-smok does not have the line at all.

Someone is now saying that the AGM89-90 example was made AFTER the darek-smok coin. However, if you look at the dentil above the S in HISPAN the apparent "age" of the coins is reversed. This same order of priority can be picked out at other places as well.

Now it is very clear that both coins were made from molds that came from a single master impression made from ONE coin. Having made hundreds of molds myself (I spent three years as a mold maker while in college). I can tell you that each mold used for injection molding of coins "can be" slightly different even though they are made using the same master. The molds actually become more different with use.

These are rather recently made injection molded copies that were edged after the coins were cast.

I point them out because the edge designs are clear and the overlaps and dimensions of the edge design are INCORRECT. Study these edges until you can see the same appearance on the other coins posted by darek-smok. Note the heavy edge borders (perhaps indicative of a thickened
coin to offset density - thereby producing correct weight). Also notice the irregular side wall thickness and the odd alignment of the elements of the edge die. The edge die was NOT made with a three segment punch because there are angle points in the design in the wrong places. There are also irregularities in the circles which is the only part of the edge die that was single punched.

Once you can spot these errors in the edge you will have little trouble with ALL the injection molded coins made to the present time.

Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2015  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tonight I spotted another example from a third seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1778-F-F-ME...391054080004

Look at the reverse - the area above the crown and the badly damaged dentils under the IND.

These Numismatic Forgeries are very common and have been worn down a bit to cover the issues. I have commented on this type earlier (awful nose on the poor old King) but it is the first time I connected the reverse die type with the others in this series.
  Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 1,482Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.28 seconds to rattle this change. Forums