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 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,066 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
First, I apologize for no picture, but I'm still trying to master taking photos that are recognizable as coins. Anyway, I have a 1931-S Lincoln Cent that has a clear (but not bold) outline of Lincoln's bust on the reverse. The coin is in VG-8. Is this clash mark common? Does it carry a premium? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
It might not be a clash mark so a picture is helpful. This is tough to describe but some older cents show a shadow of the obverse on the reverse of the coin. It is in some way a function of the strike. I am not exactly sure how this happens but I've seen it on cents of the teens, twenties and thirties, in particular.
A clash mark is completely different in appearance to this shadowy effect. If you can give a more detailed description or actually get a picture or a scan of the coin up, I can be a little more certain.
Thanks,
Bill
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
812 Posts |
I'll see if I can come up with a usable image.
Yes, it does look like a 'shadow' (a soft edged outline of the entire bust image, no detail) but assumed a clash would be the only way this effect would happen.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Ok, I'll wait to see if a picture emerges. Give it a try and we'll see what we can figure out.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
On the wheat reverse the clash areas are the same. The area of the fields next to the bust are usually affected. After the clash/cleaning happens several times, the die get a deeper impression on the areas where to two fields collide/cleaned. Usually this will get deep enough to leave a show when taking images or a ghost image where the clash happens over and over. Note the image where the outline of the bust is on the reverse of the coin. https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...ie_Clash.jpgThe outline edge of the bust will leave marks in these areas. Not the deeper design of the bust, but where the two fields clash together, leaning a mark on each other. Sometimes you can see clash marks that doubled from the strike or previous strikes. https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...ects-OBV.jpgWhen a die clash happens, the dies may crack or normal wear may wear a die down and crack. The last image on this collage is incorrect. It says scratches, but it is really a die crack between States. https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...ects-REV.jpgThe third image below shows what a 1943 Steel Cent die clash looks like. I guess it is saved into a large image of other types of errors that happens with coins at the mint. But the third image down is the one I was referring to. https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...RRORS_01.jpgSee if this helps the determination about your clashed Cent? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
Well, so far my photography has advanced to where the image is recognizable as a coin. But not to the point where I can demonstrate what I see on this cent.
Based on the examples I'm seeing here, and examples of clashes I've seen in the past, I suppose this is a "shadow" (per Foundinrolls) and not a clash. The image only appears on the reverse, and is a soft-edged outline of the entire bust, aligned like the first image in Coop's post. There are no sharp lines like most clashes I've seen, or the examples in these posts.
"Shadow" is a good description of the image. My initial assumption was that after a clashed die has been used a lot, it 'evolves' into this soft-edged shadow. But if that were the case, there should be a number of 1931-S Lincolns with this same image.
Are there any theories as to what causes a "shadow?"
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Just multiple clashes/cleaning with a lot of age on the die making very many coins in between clashing. The removal/cleaning is done with a wire brush or what ever they have to use to remove the clash marks. In time the field wears deeper into the die. Eventually the worn/cleaned are get as deep as the devices and you see the sharpness of the devices start to flow in the letters/numbers/designs and you see weak edges of the devices. Light hits the raised areas and now stars to look like a shadow/ghost image that really isn't hubbed in to the die, but it develops with time.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Look at the thread for help with the 1949 cent. I Think I answered your question by looking at that picture and responding. I suspect that your coin looks similar to the one pictured in that thread.
Thanks,
Bill
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Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
That's it!
Yes, the 'Help with a 1949 Lincoln' thread shows exactly what I am seeing on my 1931-S. I appreciate all the help!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Ok, then that is not a die clash. I just wanted to state that here too.
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Replies: 9 / Views: 1,066 |
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Posted 11/11/2007 7:23 pm
