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 Replies: 47 / Views: 7,102 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
I recently sold a coin to a buyer, they left positive feedback, listing the date they received the coin and were happy with the purchase.
6 weeks later, I receive a note for a disputed transaction with paypal, where they claim the coin was not received. I responded to paypal that the buyer already indicated that they received the coin, were happy and sent a screen shot of the comments.
I did not use tracking as it would make buying a $25 item uneconomical. I understand that it is the only way to be 100% safe and a best practice etc...
It would be nice to know if others have had similar experiences and how the resolution worked or didn't work.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
That's a new one for me. I would hope ebay will side with you, but I wouldn't count on it. Some sellers find this kind of thing intolerable and send everything on a tracked basis with a $12 or $15 shipping cost. They avoid this kind of aggravation, but the extra shipping costs really hurts the selling price. So the seller is in effect paying the shipping. I find that losses on shipping are less than 1% of items shipped.....even $50 to $100 items. I now just track more expensive items and take my chances with the rest. Better to lose a $75 item one time out of a hundred than to lose $10 with certainty by charging high shipping on 100 out of 100. Plus untracked shipping is less work. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
For years now, ebay's policy has essentially been "the buyer can do no wrong". Positive feedback received means nothing to Ebay/paypal. They just see that opened claim, and no tracking number. The will side with the buyer, I have absolutely zero doubt. That's the risk with sending untracked shipments, unfortunately. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Pokerman is right, positive feedback will not be considered by them
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Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
You are most likely going to be out the cost. However, depending on just what they wrote for feedback, if it happens that Paypal sides with them, you can file a BBB complaint. Sometimes you just gotta call out the big company when buyer protection trumps seller protection 100% of the time regardless of what evidence you have to the contrary. For example: sold a low value item on ebay, no tracking. Buyer sends me a message indicating to ship it to include the PO box in the address or it would be undeliverable, then files an unauthorized transaction claim after I mark it as shipped in ebay. Paypal sides with him (nevermind the fact that his feedback shows coins/currency as usual purchases). Paypal claims his account was hacked, but refunds me the money after filing a BBB complaint with them. Three months later, same buyer ID, same shipping name and address, buys the SAME item as before, and sends the same message to me. Did I send it the second time? Nope. Cancel the order? Nope. Refund him his money? Nope. He's yet to file a complaint and I'm not doing one thing until he does, if he does. And regardless of what he does, you can be sure I'm strongly considering filing another complaint with Paypal about them not actually doing one thing to stop the scammer. Still got 5.25 months for him to open a Paypal complaint. I thought I added him before to my blocked buyer's list, but it didn't save on ebay's end. I've verified it a dozen times now that it's being saved now. So...if you want to challenge Paypal, do it publicly, but add the buyer to your block list regardless. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7618 Posts |
Unfortunately, you will lose the dispute because there is no tracking. The FB he left doesn't mean diddly squat.
It is always best to follow the "best practices policy" when selling. One of the top items on that list is "ship with delivery confirmation viewable online from point of origin to point of delivery."
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1505 Posts |
Groszy, thanks for the BBB idea I will try that if PayPal says that I am out.
If the buyer had not publicly said he received the item, I can see where I would be out, it will be frustrating if they ignore the buyers own comments.
Good luck on your case.
Edited by purelywasted
03/19/2015 8:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
972 Posts |
I sold a silver dollar on ebay last November 12/14. It was a $30 item so it was sent regular mail without tracking. I mailed it the same day as it sold and the expected deliver of the item was November 16-21/14. After about 2 weeks I never received any feedback that he had received the dollar so I had a look at his ebay profile. The buyer had completed 39 transactions on ebay and all the other sellers had left positive feedback for this buyer, but he had never left any feedback for any items he had received for any of the sellers for his purchases. At this time I decided that he was just a buyer who did not bother to leave feedback for any items he bought, so I left him a wonderful feedback thanking him for his purchase. Then on December 26/14 I received a notification from ebay that the buyer had opened an item not received case against me 1 1/2 months after the sale. At no time did the buyer contact me to let me know he had never received the item, he just opened the case. I contacted ebay and told them this buyer had never contacted me to let me know the item was never received and had never left feedback for any items received. I felt the buyer should have at least contacted me so I could try and resolve the problem and that I felt that the buyer had also show irresponsibility by not leaving feedback for any items he has received. How would this buyer know he had not received my item 1 1/2 months later when he had never left feedback for any of his purchases. In the end Ebay/Paypal refunded him his money including shipping as it was not sent with tracking. It ended up costing me the coin, shipping, and ebay & Paypal still took there fees for the sale. Since then I no longer sell cheaper items on ebay and will only sell if the item is sent with tracking. As I haven't sold any items since then that would warrant the cost of tracking that was my last sale on ebay. |
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Valued Member
Canada
403 Posts |
EBay's backward policies of blind buyer protection while sacrificing their own customers (sellers) creates these types of scenarios whereby sellers become understandably reluctant to sell on ebay, which translates into fewer desirable products being offered to buyers as a result. As a buyer, I've noticed a steep decline in desirable products because of ebay's policies, and I haven't bought anything since last summer; which was before eBay/Paypal introduced the 6-month return policy. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
It's all part of ebay's long-term plan to change from a flea market/anyone-can-sell model to one more akin to Amazon where they only have professional/business sellers. It will be their undoing. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
Had this once where the buyer opened the dispute through their credit card company a month or so later. Credit card company only accepts tracking as proof of delivery. After an hour on the phone with Paypal (and getting somewhat agitated I must admit) they finally agreed to accept the positive feedback entered into their own authenticated system as proof and covered the claim for us "because we were such good customers" (we sell $8-$10k/month). Best advice we ever received was to charge an extra dollar or so on each sale and put the money into an insurance fund to cover cases like this. I would also suggest posting the details (IE screenshots) including the buyer ebay ID here to warn other sellers. |
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Valued Member
Canada
234 Posts |
As a buyer I love ebay's policies, I have purchased many coins over the last few years and the odd time the item truly doesn't show up in the mail. When it has happened (maybe 3-4 times in 350+ purchases) I have always contacted the seller about it first and all of them ended up giving me a refund. Never had to go through ebay or PayPal disputes but its comforting to know that it is available if needed. On the other hand I definitely see ebay's policies being horrible for sellers. I do believe that when the coins I bought didn't show up in the mail that it has been lost in the mail and it wasn't because the seller actually didn't send the item in the first place. They all had good feedback scores with many sales and highly doubt they would risk damaging their reputation over a sale that was in the $10-30 range. I have thought about selling some stuff on ebay before but after reading about stories like this I wouldn't even consider it. I don't think its fair for the seller to be out the money, but at the same time its not fair for the buyer if they honestly did not receive the item. ebay's policies should be changed to reflect some sort of a middle grounds. On a side note, there was one case where I had ordered a coin and it the estimated delivery date from ebay had come and gone without the coin arriving. I waited a full week past the date before contacting the seller just in case the coin did happen to show up late. After contacting the seller I got a refund and we both left positive feedback and moved on. Almost a full month after that the coin shows up in the mail and there was a note on the envelope saying "wrong address". So the reason for the delay was that the coin was originally delivered to someone else at a different address (who had the decency to take the time to make sure the envelope was returned back into the postal system). I ended up contacting the seller and resending the payment afterwards and he was quite grateful (still wasn't fair to him because I think he had to pay more PayPal fees for the extra transactions). In the end, the first person who the envelope was delivered to could've kept the coin and no one would've ever known, or after I had gotten the coin I could've not said anything and no one would've known since I already got the refund. Definitely not fair to the seller. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
True, but it's hard to see another way ebay could do it while protecting their profit margins.... Remember the 3 laws of ebay and you won't be disappointed. 1) ebay & Paypal will always get their cut. 2) ebay and Paypal protect the buyer except where this would conflict with the First Law 3) ebay and Paypal protect the seller only as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law |
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Valued Member
Canada
299 Posts |
A chargeback case was just opened against me today, going back to January of this year. The ebay buyer stated that he did not authorize this purchase ($825). I have a confirmed address from paypal for the buyer, positive feedback left by the buyer and the Express Post tracking receipt with Canada Post's website showing the correct address (paypal's confirmed address for the buyer) with the buyer's signature. Uploaded scans of all this to the paypal site, up to them to fight for me against the Visa claim I guess. Anyone else had a case like this? Unauthorized purchase? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
As a seller, I only get nervous if the buyer has a low feedback rating or a few too many negative ratings.
In 15 years, I've only had the occasional transaction blip.
Nothing too costly (yet).
Luckily, I have a good group of repeat buyers that I can be reassured everything will be OK.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
We just dealt with a beauty. Sent a package in December that was tracked , no problem. Then in first week of February he bought two more lots from us and surprise never received! I can tell you this as a former employee of Canada Post ( 22 years) that very little clearly marked correctly addressed mail with a clearly marked return address ever goes missing. ebay and their current policies are clearly anti seller and protect the buyer beyond belief. Needless to say we are out about a hundred bucks and life goes on. That said this clown is in for one heck of a surprise when I am through with my dealings with Canada Post security and the USPS investigator. We ,by the looks of it WILL have proof he got the second shipment. The knock on his door will be precious. |
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Replies: 47 / Views: 7,102 |
Posted 03/19/2015 4:28 pm
