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 Replies: 37 / Views: 10,627 |
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Press Manager
 United States
1420 Posts |
The following is an excerpt from the Canadian Coin NewsThis is part one of a two-part series involving counterfeit coins in Canada. See the next issue of Canadian Coin News for part two.There's cause for concern in the coin community over something that has been brewing for decades. Now, with a perfect storm of anonymous markets, advanced "replicating" techniques and shady morals, counterfeit coins are being called a plague on the hobby. Sean Isaacs, of Alliance Coin and Banknote, said counterfeiting is among the most serious issues facing collectors today. "In the olden days, one really had to worry only about good counterfeits of rare coins, as well as crappy counterfeits generally intended to fool tourists or complete novices." Today, he said, the risk has grown exponentially. "Yes, we still encounter the crappy fakes of far-off shores, but now the Chinese counterfeiting market - or 'replicas', as they like to lie - has exploded." And the problem doesn't end with common coins like Canadian and U.S. silver dollars, Isaacs said. Read the Entire Article
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
As the fakers increase their skill in the faking of slabs, (which in themselves have nothing to do with legal tender), the threat to the TPG industry may grow to be even bigger than the faking of the coins. There may well be an increasing need to break a slab of any brand, for any reason of doubt, just to have the coin it contains verified. You can't check a coin for authenticity when it is in a slab, all you can do is trust the slab, or break the slab to test the coin directly. I have a fake coin collection for my own education, but I don't have a fake slab collection for the equivalent reason. Perhaps I should, but how do you break a slab with miminal damage? I like to buy fake coins that are knowingly sold as fakes, but is there anybody out there who will sell you a known fake slab? I suspect that there will be an increase in number of top quality fake coins in fake slabs where coin cannot be checked, unless the slab is broken with the risk that the coin was indeed genuine, but the implied guarantee of authenticity is now lost. Edited by sel_69l
04/03/2015 08:42 am
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Valued Member
Canada
495 Posts |
Indeed we need to exercise caution even the "experts" are being fooled.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Quote:
All things considered, it's the relationship with your dealer that matters most, he said.
"At the end of the day, there is nothing like establishing a long-term relationship with a dealer who can take active note of your own particular collecting interests, even if such a relationship - either through geography or mobility - never actually involves a face-to-face encounter." Excellent article, and quote... Looking forward to the second part of this! |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
If the bad guys are still able to fake much of our paper money with a fair bit of success and still duplicate many of the tough security devices, I can see how making near perfect plastic slabs would be so easy for the counterfeiters.
If the market gets flooded with perfect fake slabs,..then the only solution is to break all coins out of all slabs and go back to viewing each coin "in hand".
If the proper authorities won't step in on these frauds,..then the hobby might be doomed..
What does Mike feel is the solution here?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
PCGS, NGC and ICCS have been counterfeited. Below is a list of Counterfeit PCGS holders and the counterfeit Canadian coins in them.
1948 Canada $1 Dollar
1921 George V, Sterling Silver Canada 50 Cents Half Dollar
1870 Canada 50 Cents Half Dollar
1921 Canada 5 Cents
1936 with raised dot Canada 1 Cents
Canada 1 Cents 1923
1925 Canada 1 Cents
1888 Canada 50 Cents Half Dollar
1945 Canada Dollar
1925 Canada nickel 5 Cents
1872 Canada 50 Cents Half Dollar
1947 Canada Dollar
1894 Canada 50 Cents Half Dollar
1890 Canada 50 Cents Half Dollar
Canada nickel 5 Cents 1926
1932 Canada 50 Cents Half Dollar
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1700 Posts |
China no longer has its advantage of producing items with extremely cheap labour, as before. Replicating high-end items is now a new option for the economy.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4227 Posts |
In the interview with Brian Cornwell in the latest CN Journal, he's asked about the counterfeit problem and mentions how much better the fakes are getting and that with the action on bourse floors, there is little time to properly inspect the coin. He closes that question with, "So this is a problem, and I have no idea how you're going to stop it. Mistakes are going to be made for sure."
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Valued Member
Canada
93 Posts |
I remember a discussion on another forum from about eight years ago when I got slammed for suggesting that if a person had the necessary skill set to copy an expensive coin, then forging the holder would be a piece of cake. This was met with derision from other posters as being highly improbable.
This bane to our hobby could have been impeded if the grading companies had a reference number that could be checked by accessing their database. which I believe PCGS does.
The grade assigned to a coin was considered just an opinion from an experienced grader. Now it is used to confirm the legitimacy of the coin itself and a grade. The hobby ( especially the high end of the market )will suffer until this is resolved.
Rob
Edited by inconnu
04/03/2015 12:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
One of the problems is the numbers on the holder can be copied, then you are back to square one. A lookup system only cuts out the low grade fakes, but it is not difficult to find legitimate numbers for coins by doing a image search using google. This is further compounded with re-slabbing coins. If I was a maker of high grade fakes, I would buy my intended target coin, get it certified, crack it, send it to get it re-certified and repeat the cycle until I was done, as I would now have xx legitimate numbers for holders that I could sell, in addition I would have the invoice to show it was graded.The next step would be to put the fake coins in a fake slab and sell. I don't think relying on TPG's is a great alternative and continually getting coins retested/certified would be cost prohibitive. A provenance system would work for the most expensive coins, but it is not really feasible for a $500 1925 5 cent piece. Maybe the hobby will return to the "kings" and the rest of us will have a hodge podge mix of real and fake coins. Think Ming vases vs. nice looking knock offs. Edited by purelywasted
04/03/2015 2:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
You need a picture of the coin associated to the reference # (PCGS has this in some cases) and preferably an encrypted digital tag of the coin (under a high res scan each coin should show relatively unique characteristics) and holder built into the holder that can be verified; perhaps by a smartphone app using NFC. You need to verify the picture matches the coin and hasn't been altered; the coin is in the valid holder and hasn't been swapped etc etc.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
All of these steps would make most coins prohibitively expensive except for a few very exotic coins.
Examining coins "in hand" might be our next option until this problem gets squared away..
These frauds might damage our hobby for many years to come..
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Valued Member
50 Posts |
My personal I don't like looking at the coin when it is inside its little plastic prison.
What I always love sinced a boy was to actual hold this coin in my own hand
This counterfeit thing is only a problem if you don't know how to authenticate and grade for yourself. Learn to do this there are a lot of the good reference source with picture of authentic coin for each date of them and books for learning.
It's not the rocket science. Don't be intimated just takes some patience and practice of observation. Anybody can learn to do this.
Buy raw coins from seller with good reputation and full guarantee return policy.
And by all means crack those coin out of the plastic prison and free them to the world!
Happy Easter to you all :)
Gilles
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Pillar of the Community
798 Posts |
If you free them to the world there grade will go down the more they are touched. Keep them in there holders and if you are going to touch them at least only do it on the edges. If you touch actual rare coins with your bare hands I will need to report you to the coin police! What you said is not smart at all in my opinion! Please don't wear coins down that are already not only hard to find but also discontinued, They belong in some sort of (protection).  |
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Valued Member
50 Posts |
*** Edited by Staff - the entire post in large, bold font is unnecessary***
All of my precious coin they are kept & protect in archival quality non-PVC slips and handled with kindness and professional care :)
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Pillar of the Community
798 Posts |
  ! Now I can sleep tonight. |
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Replies: 37 / Views: 10,627 |
Posted 04/03/2015 08:16 am
