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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,186 |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
A few years ago I had been talking via E Mail with a dealer to sell some of my coins. The dealer wanted to pay a general (type) price for the lot of 20 or so coins I had. I asked why should I accept (type) prices when I had to buy them according to date and grade, and I am sure he would have sold them by date and grade. I know all the stocking, grading, overhead, stuff that a dealer has, yadayadayada with that. Most dealers have such a small overhead it's not even there. I am talking about coins that sell for between 25 and 50 dollars depending on date and grade. He did tell me if I would send them to him he would go through them. No response to further E mails. In other works he just "Blew me off" I am not saying all dealers are crooks or just out for the money, but I think that unless you have real rarities and ultra $$ coins some dealers do not want to be bothered. Has the hobby been taken over my the Hawks with the big bucks? Too important to deal with small collectors? I have the utmost respect for dealers that are collectors and no respect for dealers who are in it just for the Buck. Dealer and collector thoughts welcome.
Thanks Tony
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
quote:
I have the utmost respect for dealers that are collectors and no respect for dealers who are in it just for the Buck.
This response will only address the above point from your post-- Why exactly would you have more respect for a dealer who is also a collector? One local dealer here is also a collector--do you know what that means? It means that every time he buys a coin that is in the least bit valuable or a rarity, it goes into his personal collection. He doesn't give local collectors a chance to buy the coin. I'm not saying that there's necessarily anything wrong with this, but I know for a fact that this week he took his "book" of coins that he has cherry-picked over the years to a large coin show in order to sell them to other dealers. After shafting every collector in the area for years, he decides to dump his collection to other dealers. Yeah, you keep respecting coin dealers who are also collectors, I'll stick with dealers who are in it for the buck. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
You see, if you actually bought the coins to his store, you might have got a different answer. If you actually tell me to buy from you over the net, I might be very cautious as I really don't know if you are trying to be honest or not of what you are trying to sell especially if I don't know if I am going to lose my money.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseriesMy numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htmRegularly updated at least once a month. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1952 Posts |
you will find more dealers on line now than in the B&M buildings. so the overhead isn't that big a deal "to me"
yes most of them are crooks in it for the money but once in a while you get lucky and find the one that cares. if and when that happens stick with him/her you will learn alot. your dealer "blew you off" because he seen that you was not a dummy and asked too many questions for him to feel comfortable with. you took him out of his comfort zone and they hate that lol. plus you didn't mention any rarities I would guess and that turned him off too. but you also have to remember hat the B&M dealers are there for the money too. and if they cant make it on you they will move on. they do have to pay for that store. if you want a better deal go with someone that don't have all them bills to keep up with (as fare as up keep for the shop) an online dealer has much less to loose and you will get a better deal
Gary
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2703 Posts |
I've been told that you can't make any money in coins if you are a collector. Simply because you are always holding the best stuff back for yourself. I tend to prefer buying from a dealer who wants to move the merchandise and has no sentimental attachment to his coins. Buying from a collector can be frustrating. For example, I know a collector/dealer satcheleer who sells his "extras" at coins shows. He has some great coins and I am happy to get some of these, but I am really interested in the better ones he talks about but doesn't bring to the shows.
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Valued Member
 United States
382 Posts |
If a dealer is a collector he has every right to keep what he wants for his collection. The dealer that is a collector first I would think has at least a small amount of feeling for the collector. Rude business practice is everywhere, we all know that, but the collecting comunity is what made the dealers their money, at least have some respect for the collector who is not shelling out big bucks for coins. On the other hand I have dealt with some very honest smaller dealers who enjoy what they do and are happy to help a collector.
I'd like to see how long some of these quick buck dealers would last without internet.Like the old days. Fly by nights they are.
Halfbustisbetter, you have your opinions and I have mine. That's what makes the world go round. I don't want to get into a whole philosphical debate, just asking for comments. JMO ya know.
I agree you cannot make money selling coins that's the way it is I know the dealer has to make money, but please give the collector a fair shake.
regards Tony
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
I re-read my post and I agree it could have sounded as if I were upset with you, when in fact I am unhappy with the dealer-collector.
There are honest dealers, and honest collectors, and some who are both. If you find one, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
853 Posts |
As a dealer I will very rarely offer a reasonable price on a coin unless I see it in real life. I sell numerous coins via the ebay market as well as through my shop. The problem you have is that I get a number of emails and phone calls telling me the coin or note is "uncirculated" or in excellent condition. When it shows up it is a dogs breakfast or just an average circulation junker. If an image of a coin is sent it may not show the full picture. Images are easily enhanced and if they are not lightling, angle of the coin and other factors will have an effect on how the coin looks. In a nut shell a lot of instances (not all) a seller will tell you it is better than what it actually is to get a better price...from experience it happens all to often so you just do not take the chance....the dealer needs to see in real life to give a price he/she is happy with. The second issue here is the price they offered on $20-$50 coins. You are talking about coins that are not rare. Chances are they are coins most dealers have lots of. If you have lots of them the need for lots + 1 is just not there. It may even be a case the sales on the coins they have lots of are very slow even though they are a nice coin and sell for $50. The dealer may have little or no market for them or it could even be a case where most dealers have no market for them. The dealer concerned may have even just purchased a large quanity of what you have so has no need for them. A dealer will also price items in accordance to where they can get them cheaper. (I did a quote over the weekend on some coins that catalogue at $22 each. Latest auction sales were realising $9.00 each....recent ebay sales had them at $3.00 each. If I do not get them from my client at $3.00 I will just go to ebay to get them). I may need to consider selling them on ebay in the future or my market for that particular item is ebay so if ebay sales are weak and I still need to feed the family I will buy so I can make a profit on ebay. A $50 item will not drag someone into my shop and in the scheme of things is not a key item that will attract an out of the world price when a collector goes to sell. A $5000 item is an item most dealers would want on their stock list as it will attract customers as it is rare...therefore most dealers will offer a good price. Auction/ebay sales etc will reflect the percentage of retail that each item will get so expect that when you sell to a dealer. Now the difference between brick and mortor shops and internet traders. Bricks and mortor shops do have more overheads. It does not mean they will pay less. From my experience the internet sellers offer less because most (not all...I know some very reputable internet sellers...many are members of this forum) are in it for a quick buck. They are often the ones that discount and really do not care about the industry because they are in it for a quick buck. The second issue is that the main source of stock for a shop is the public. If they do not offer competitive prices they go broke through lack of stock. Lastly....do not be quick to judge the price offered from a dealer. I am not saying that the dealer you approached did not "rip you off" but if you are unhappy with a price...ask why the "low" price was offered. Any reputable dealer will give you an answer they can back up with fact. The shonky ones will not be able to. Just because you and the reputable dealer can not agree on a price does not mean it is a bad deal. It is a deal you can not agree on and this should not be held against the dealer. (There are at least two parties to a deal so you are 50% of the problem.) Both parties have to be comfortable with a price else one party is a looser...if there is a looser then it is a bad deal. I do not expect to close every deal that I am involved in....overall I close about 80% of the buy and sell deals I negotiate on secondary market items. The remaining 20% are just deals that never happened but are not necessarily bad. I hope this helps you understand the the way a dealer thinks and look forward to your comments. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2703 Posts |
I totally agree that dealers should not be rude to collectors, no matter what the collector's budget is. The nice dealers at coin shows will take time to help out all collectors. When I cruise coin shows, I will stop at a dealer's table if he meets my eye, says hello and ask what he can do for me. I am a long haired poorly dressed guy that looks like he doesn't have much money to spare. So the nice dealers get my business, which is usually a few hundred dollars, sometimes more if I have coin fever. The dealers that ignore me or are rude get nothing.
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Moderator
United States
23478 Posts |
Bigfella
Great reply
I would now like to see what Bobby & Susan say about this topic
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
Halfbust, OK I see what you are saying. As I said there are bad businessmen in all fields and hobbies. Just have to stay away from them if possible.
Big... Thank you for the honest reply as a dealer. I see your point, this is the answer I was looking for. Now I see the relation to supply and demand on the "collector grade" coins. I did not look at it this way.
t360, Yes I agree 100%, At the shows is where you really see the rudness. At my local shows I know excactly which tables to stop at and which ones to avoid.
Thanks for all the opinions guys, Tony
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
853 Posts |
Tony, I am glad you got something out of my post. I hope other do too.
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
I agree with all that Bigfella said. I have also had a lot of people contact me with what they call "higher grade" and "uncirculated" coins that have turned out to be cleaned and some are even damaged. This is very frustrating. Recently, I bought a small collection that included a gold half eagle. I bought it for 75% of book value, but in a fluke sale, it sold for a lot higher than book. This made it appear that I undercut the gentleman, which I did not do. For the most part, I will be lucky to break even on the rest of the coins, but I wanted to offer a fair price. Something to consider is that, on lower dollar coins, the profit margin is very low. If you have a coin with a book value of $20, the most a dealer can pay who sells on ebay is about $15. Once the fees are deducted, the profit on the coin is about $2.50. For the work that has gone into the sale, that's very low. Just something to think about. For the most part, this is why we prefer to sell on consignment. That way, there can be no question of offering a fair price. The coin will sell for what it sells for and we get a set commission out of that. As far as a dealer also being a collector, I don't think that really matters very much one way or another. A dealer is either fair and honest, or not. Keep in mind that many dealers were collectors first and understand the needs of the collector even if they are not collecting any longer. While I have a very small collection, I am really not actively collecting because, for me, I found it was a conflict of interest with selling. I have seen the dealers at the shows who are rude and obviously don't care if you deal with them or not. Many of these dealers come to the shows to deal with other dealers and aren't interested in the retail market. You'd be amazed how many coins just keep changing hands among dealers and don't make it back into collector hands for years. |
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Rest in Peace
Australia
661 Posts |
Good post Shane.
Very enlightening.
regards,
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Valued Member
United States
204 Posts |
I agree with Bigfella and mom. I would also add that the profit a dealer makes is also related to how fast the dealer can turn over inventory. Some dealers will offer what seems like a lowball bid only because they know it may take them a long time to actually sell off some items based on their experience. It's valid to disagree with and pass by any offers for your coins - you should always strive to find what you believe is a fair offer. Most of the dealers I buy from are collectors, but they usually collect something I don't, or already have much better examples of the coins I am looking for already in their collections (at a grade I can't afford anyways). If they happen to collect what I am looking for, more power to them - they can pass on their extras to me  (and they usually will, since they know what I am looking for). Hope you can find some better people to work with, after all this is supposed to be a fun hobby! |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
hi all,
Thanks for all the responses. Susan, I see, the profit margin is not that great. I do not mind a dealer making money but offering under 50% of retail is a little low. Don't you think? but I do understand exactly your point. As a dealer what is your opinion on a collector just becoming a dealer to further his own collection. Are the costs of being a dealer high enough to prevent this from being possible. I am sure alot of dealers started this way.? Not for me ^_^ just a question.
Thanks Tony
Thanks Tony
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Replies: 20 / Views: 2,186 |
Posted 11/18/2007 2:11 pm
