Is God Tempting Me?

I told my Rabbi that I was a coin collector & I got the OK to go through my Synagogue's coin bag's many thousands of coins (maybe 50 pounds). The Rabbi told me that whatever I find could be exchanged with the same denomination amount, i.e., a cent for a cent, etc. I was just filling holes in my albums, cents, nickels, dimes, quarters.

Like karrlot says, "When people dropped a penny in this jug, they wanted the church to get one cent. If I take that cent to fill a hole in my collection and replace it with another cent, that's fair isn't it?"

Yes, it is. I went through many hours of searching & checking the coins, using my loupe, etc. And the Synagogue was more than happy that, when I was done, I lugged all the coins to the bank coin counter & got dollar bills for them. I helped them & they helped me.

That being said, if I had found a 1909-S VDB, for example, & wanted to keep it, I think that I would have been entitled to it, since the giver was giving a cent & the Synagogue would never have found it or expected to find it. They would have taken it to the bank coin counter & got one cent for it, exactly what they were expecting. I put in the trouble to search for it & I was allowed to keep what I found "in exchange" for doing the Synagogue a favor & lugging this huge amount of coins to the bank coin counter for them, exchanging it for bills. If I was the Rabbi, I think that I would say that it's fair for you to keep it.

If I found a 1909-S VDB, worth $1,000, for instance, & paid the Synagogue $1,000 for it, what's the point of me toiling for many hours? I could have saved myself all those hours & trouble & bought the coin for $1,000 on ebay. Again, I got the "bargain" of the find because I put in the trouble to search for it & I was allowed to keep what I found "in exchange" for doing the Synagogue a favor & taking it to the bank coin counter for them, exchanging it for bills.

However, if I decided to sell it on ebay for a profit, for instance, I feel that in that case, I would be obligated to inform the Rabbi & see what he says is the proper thing to do & do it. In this case, if I was the Rabbi, I think that I would say that it's fair to split it 50-50.

In this case however, where anybody could obviously see that this gold coin is not worth "face value" but rather many hundreds more, & it wasn't my toil & labor of checking & investigating that "discovered" this coin, this would not fit "a cent for a cent." In this case, I would be obligated to inform the Rabbi & see what he says is the proper thing to do & do it. Again, in this case, if I was the Rabbi, I think that I would say that it's fair to split it 50-50.

I love the sense of entitlement that these people, who search church coins, seem to have. It speaks volumes about the decline in American values. You seem to think that if you find a gem, it's your right to keep it, because you labored long and hard searching, or you feel that it's ok to swap it out with a coin of equal denomination and keep the gem for your efforts.

That takes some nerve. The church is nice enough to allow you to volunteer your time. If you don't find anything of value do you feel that the church owes you anything for your efforts? Ofcourse not. So, when you hit pay dirt, all of a sudden you feel this entitlement for profiting off the church giving you permission to search. Incredible.

If you find gems, report them to the church and let them decide what to do with them. They may say keep them, they may say, pay market value for them. They may say sell them and give everything to the church. That is their right. It's their money.

Personally, I think it's wrong to pull keepers from the till and not tell the church. The money was given to do Gods work and they should have the final say.

That said, if you get an unsearched lot off ebay or buy a pound of coins at auction and find a gem ...you win. But I think if the church allows to search the till, you owe them the respect to report your findings and abaide but their wishes. That is the right thing to do.

Since you've got permission to look through the coins, the church (minister) obviously understands that you will be swapping coin-for-coin for what you want to add to your collection. This is not theft, nor is it in anyway immoral.

For all those who think different, I have a question for you: If you got a 1909-s vdb in change from the Dairy Queen, would you give it back to the owner? I sure wouldn't. But, if I was accidentally given a ten dollar bill in change instead of a one, I would let the clerk know of the mistake and make the appropriate exchange.

How is going through the church's change any different, once you've gotten permission?

Hunter, you assume that the parishioner did not have any idea what he put in the jar. It would seem reasonable if it were just silver Washington quarters, but a $2 1/2 gold piece makes me think that the individual knew what it was. That being said, the donor expected the full value of the donation to go to the church and the guy going thru the coins does not get the residual. The minister expects the person going thru the coins to be identifying extra value for the betterment of the church, not the individual.
Jim

I tried to upload the photos of the otherstuff I found, but couldn't get it to upload.

Andrew: the agreement I had with the preacher was that I would take the jug of money. I would go through it, take any coins I wanted, replace them cent for cent. The church already decided - let me pick through the coins and take what I want, replacing them dollar for dollar. Yes, I am entitled to the coins I find, as well as the buttons, washers, and pocket lint.

The only expectation the preacher had was that I would take the jug of coins and turn them in, then write him a check for the dollar amount of coins in the jug.

In addition to the gold coin there was:
3 1964 dimes,
1 1944 dime,
a Canadian quarter, nickle and about 5 cents,
about 3 other foreign coins,
about 5 wheat pennies,
about 3 Jefferson nickles from the 30s and 40s,
a 1943 steel cent,
a LasVegas/Hoover dam token,
a medal that is silver colored with an angel on it (it looks to be hand made) it is flat, roundish, and about 1/4" thick.
12 buttons,
a washer,
a "no cash value" token (since there's no value, I figure thats mine to keep),
1998 chucky cheese token,
a button off of a pew coushin.

I think its interesting that there is a person on this forum (I can't remember who) that knows people at a bank who let him/her go to the bank, search through the coins and buy any 'keepers'. No one seems to have a problem with that. Everyone thinks he's lucky.

If you see a gas station clerk buying a coin out of their till, no one seems to have a problem with that. So is it just the fact that this is a church that brings out such stong opinions?

If you see a person is going through the church trash and taking out aluminium cans to recycle do you consider them stealing? Are they obligated to turn that money back into the church? Does their economic status matter?

If the church has a rummage sale and you buy a coat, when you get home you find a hundred dollar bill in the pocket. Who's money is it?

I think most can agree that whoever put this in there has no idea that its there or if they do, they don't know what it is. If they wanted to donate a coin with a value of $200+ they would have done it differently than dropping it in a huge jug of coins.

Based on the agreement I had with the preacher I am entitled to take this coin.

I put this to my morality test: what would Grandpa tell me to do?

I need to be able to stand up in front of the church, including the person that accidently dropped this coin in the jug, and explain my actions. Based on that, I can't really take it, split it 50-50 or even pay melt for it (if its worth more than BV).

Since I can't ask the person directly, I guess I have to assume that they intended the value of the coin to be donated. (Even though I know they didn't and I have a preacher-given right to take this coin!)

That really stinks because the one thing I don't have in my collection is a gold coin, and I've been itchin' to get me one. But I can't afford to buy this. Anyway, I've wanted to get a Canadian sovereign.

Since the "No Cash Value" token doesn't have any value, I guess I get to keep that one.

This sucks!

If you had an agreement with the preacher than I say cent for cent. As for the gold coin, it could have been an accident or intentional, no one will never know. I do not think most of the posters here have a problem with the cent for cent, it's the gold coin. If you would have not volunteered to go through the coins, the coin machine would have rejected it and it either would have been thrown out or discovered. I am guessing it was intentional and the person wanted the value of the coin given to the church, you hear about this stuff all the time this time of year, a person dropping an gold or platinum coin in the Salvation Army bucket or mailing some letter with an expensive stamp. I think people do this to remain anonymous or can not afford to give the real value of the coin as it was inherited or something similar.

I think it's your duty as a collector to rescue coins that are just dumped into a bucket and not appreciated for their true value. I think it's your responsibility as a member of the church and to yourself that when you find the church owns something undervalued to help them get the proper benefit from it. It you want to take a coin from the jug worth $200 you should either replace it with $200 or help the church sell it for $200. I think the reason you go to a church (or mosque or whatever) is not for the opportunity to find coins, but to appreciate value. Not being a religious person in the colloquial sense, I have a hard time understanding why this concept (which is prevalent just about every religion) is so hard for their members to grasp.

I'll sum it up in four words: do the right thing.

Oh, and kudos on the finds !

Every year around Christmas time, you hear stories of coins dropped into the Salvation Army kettles. I do remember that the St. Louis Post-Dispatch did a story on this a few years ago. The coins usually dropped are gold and silver Eagles but also the occasional vintage gold coin. A picture of the valuable coins from the St. Louis area was next to the article- all of the valuable coins were either in a flip or airtite. I am sure that the Salvation Army did not package them this way and that means only one thing- the owner/giver of the coin knew the true value of the coin when dropped into the kettle and wanted to protect the value and also that protective packaging lets people know that it is not an ordinary coin or a piece of junk.

If someone wanted to anonymously donate a gold coin to a church, do you think they would take the chance of it getting lost, misplaced, or discarded by carelessly dumping it in with a multitude of other coins or would it be carefully packaged to alert others of something special?

Question: have you definitively determined that it is an authentic $2.5 gold coin? Do not worry about anything else until you have done that- it could be a clever replica just like all of the other tokens and assorted smeg. IMHO, once you determine authenticity, bring it to the attention of your pastor/priest/reverend and let him decide what would be fair for all parties involved. After all, if you can't trust what should be the unbiased judgement of a man of God, who can you rely upon for a moral compass