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 Replies: 52 / Views: 4,146 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
535 Posts |
Our church had a fund raiser where we put a 5 gallon jug at the front and everybody emptied their spare change into each week for a few months. As the jug filled up week after week, my mouth was practically watering. I wanted to sneak in and go through all of the coins. I finally asked the preacher if I could go through them. I offered to take them to my bank (with a coin counting machine) for the opportunity to go through them all. I got the jug today. I dumped some out on the table to start going through them. My nine year old kept sticking her eye up to the jug: "Look Dad there is one with stripes on it. Look dad theres one with holes in it. Somebody put things that arn't coins in there. Can I have them?" I took a quick look and there were a few other things - buttons, a few arcade tokens. I told her that after we got them out, we could look at them and she could have some (But I get some too!). "Look dad theres a golden one with a bird on it!" She kept looking and trying to get me to look. Finally I did and it was about the size of a dime. It had a picture of a bird on it that reminded me of the post office bird. I told her we'd get to it soon enough. If I didn't want it she could have it. I came across a 1964 dime and showed my wife. She got upset and felt I was taking advantage of the church because I'm taking it and its worth more then a dime. I told her "If I wouldn't be doing this, it would have gone into the coin counter and nobody would get it. I'll tell you what if I come across a gold Krugarand or something I'll make sure that the church gets the money for it!" Well after a while, I finally got to the 'bird coin'. Here is a photo. Like I said its about as big as a dime. Is this real? I know the answer probably lies in the weight of the coin, but I don't have a scale. Do you think this is real? Image:  coin_0003.jpg33.17 KB |
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Moderator
 United States
6563 Posts |
very cool! Be kinda cool if you could find out what other coin collector you have in the church. As far as if it's genuine. I see nothing that says it's fake but I ain't an expert on the series. As far as what you should do if it's real...give the church what you would honestly pay for this coin on ebay...or sell it here. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
827 Posts |
is the edge reeded? dine's width is 17.9mm RedBook says this coin should be 18mm so you are right on it having to be about the size of a dime. This could be a legit coin and at VF-20 it is listed at $175. But yeah weight should be determined. Should weigh 4.18 grams if real. Really neat find! |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2703 Posts |
I agree with your wife. All the coins belong to the church, and if any of them are worth more, including the 1964 dime, you should either give the church fair market value in exchange or sell them and add the proceeds to the total. You are in effect donating your time and knowledge in looking through the coins and making sure that the church gets the full value from the kind donations of its members.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
 I would think you should at least give the church melt value for them and if and when you sell them, give the church the proceeds over and above what you pay. I assume the gift was deliberate and should be treated as such. |
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Moderator
United States
23475 Posts |
Do the right thing
make an offering if it is real
but do not believe for one moment it was given as a donation because of it's value.
I have dealt with many churches that have had coins donated.
When it is done properly the valuable coin is usually given separately to the church so the church knows that they are getting value, and the presenter usually get the tax donation.
As you said when a coin like this is donated in a coin jar most of the time it just goes into a coin counter and gets rejected and due to the poor numismatic education of most bank tellers, the coin then usually goes into a junk bucket.
The representative of your church was not expecting more than "face value" of the coin, but the "got ya" is God knows the value, and the intent of your heart.
If the coin has value, explain it to your pastor and offer to pay it off at a fair price, if you can not afford it, but what ever you do
please do not try to "rob God"
This post is not endorsing any church just pointing out that we as a family forum believe in integrity and hope all of our members feel the same way.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
Oh, yea, and it would not be God that is tempting you.  Jim |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
936 Posts |
I have to agree with everybody, do the right thing and offer at least face for the silver and fair market for the gold if it is real. It is a shame that people put those in collection jars, holiday collections etc as I am sure many go unnoticed. I hope it was not a collector who had it in his pocket for a coin show on Sunday and inadevertently placed it in to the jar, imagine going to a show to get prices or sell the coin, reach into your pocket and think uh oh!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
No. Perhaps God knows you'll do the right thing?
I think I would also exchange for market value.
Edited by KurtS
12/02/2007 11:53 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
Where do you live? I want to make sure I'm somewhere else if a lightning storm hits!   I think if you DID/DO find something of real value, sell it and donate it to the church. You will have provided a real service and did something you can feel good about. And as a bonus you got to play with your hobby. As far as a worn 1964 dime? Meh... that's peanuts. Put an extra buck in the collection plate and call it a day. Just my 1864 2 Cent piece. :) |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
535 Posts |
No, no, no - you misunderstand. I'm not 'helping' the church or volunteering my time. I'm using the church to get what I want. Its all about me! I wouldn't be 'robbing God', just taking what is rightfully mine. (I'm jest kidding) When I orignally decided to do this, I was thinking I would find a few wheat cents and also might find some State Quarters or older nickles to fill in some holes. I was planning on just buying them for face value. I didn't imagine I would find any silver, let alone gold. First off, let me just say that it is obvious to me that I can't just take this coin and replace it with a dime. Actually what I've been thinking about most is if I need to try to get this back to the rightful owner. I'm going to talk to the pastor about that. There is no way that someone dropped this in there on purpose thinking that it would be found and the church would sell it and get that money for it. This thing is easily mistaken for a dime. If I wasn't such a wierdo and asked if I could go through the jug of coins, no one ever would have seen it. I'm worried that someone had it in a jar and accidently put it in the coin jug. There were a number of other tokens that were very unusual. Maybe we could use these to identify someone that accidently put a bunch of stuff into the jug. I just can't imagine that this was done on purpose. For the sake of argument, I disagree that this is a cut and dry, no-brainer, right or wrong issue. If I was not going to try to find out the owner of this, I could justify the argument that someone thought this was a dime, so they wanted the church to get a value of $.10 for it (maybe I'll be extra generous and give them face value - $2.50!) I could pay the church a dime and take it. I'm not stealing from the church. In fact, I took a coin that was destined to be rejected from a coin counting machine and gave them a coin that they would get a dime for. So if I say forget it, I can't figure out what to do, I put the gold coin back into the jug and take it to the counting machine, have I done something wrong? When people dropped a silver dime in this jug, they wanted the church to get $.10. If I take that silver dime and give the church a clad dime, that's fair. I'm not cheating them. They started with 10 cents and they are ending with 10 cents. I'm gaining from it, but its at the expense of the church. They would have had a dime with or without me. What if I decide that I don't want it and I don't have the time to try to sell this silver dime to give the profit to the church. So I put it back in the jug and take it to the counting machine- is there something wrong with that? Have I done something dishonest? When people dropped a penny in this jug, they wanted the church to get one cent. If I take that cent to fill a hole in my collection and replace it with another cent, that's fair isn't it? Well, what if the cent I took was a Wheat cent and I replaced it with a Memorial cent, is that still fair? The church had a cent before and they have a cent after. What if the cent I took was a pre 1982 cent and I replaced it with a post 1982 cent, is that fair or not? I can tell you what I am NOT going to do. I am not going to pull out all of the pre 1982 cents, sell them on ebay for a premium (because copper is worth twice face right now)and give the profit to the church. Is that wrong of me NOT to do that? |
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Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
quote:
I'm worried that someone had it in a jar and accidently put it in the coin jug. There were a number of other tokens that were very unusual. Maybe we could use these to identify someone that accidently put a bunch of stuff into the jug. I just can't imagine that this was done on purpose.
I concur that it wasn't likely to have been placed there by a fellow collector; they'd have likely kept it in a 2x2 or slab to made it stand out from the regular circulation coinage, so even non-numismatic people would have spotted it at once. I suspect it's the result of a casual hoarder. Many people (who don't have coin collectors in the family) have a jar of coins. whenever they find something just lying around or in circulation that makes them go "Hey, that's unusual", they take it and put it in the jar. They don't really know or care what's in the jar, they just hoard stuff out of habit. So when the call goes out at the church, "bring in all your loose change you've got lying around", they remember they've got their jar. They don't really know what else to do with it, so they bring it in and add it to the jug. They neither know nor care what the poor people counting the money make of their "odds and ends"; they're just happy to help fill the jug. An attitude that's alien to most forum members, I'm sure, but remember, not everyone's cut out to be a collector. So you probably won't be able to trace the "original owner". And even if you did, they'd probably be surprised and embarrassed at all the fuss. My dad helps count the offering money at my church, and passes on anything odd and unusual he finds. And believe you me, church offering bowls seem to collect more than their fair share of foreign coins, tokens, medals and other "coins" people don't know what else to do with. He usually swaps whatever he finds with what he thinks it might be worth, out of his own pocket. The only valuable thing I've obtained this way is a 10 ounce silver ingot, which I paid the bullion price of the day for. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1713 Posts |
Very interesting to see everyone's opinions on this one! Karrlot, can we see some pictures of some of the other things you've found (tokens and the like)?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
I think you'll be surprised at what the pastor tells you when you explain the situation. If the gold coin is real, and knowing with almost certainty that the person that deposited it had no idea of the worth, my guess is that the "church" will be rational about the whole thing. In the church I grew up attending, I would almost guarantee my pastor would suggest a 50/50 split of the value. I would get to keep the coin for half the value if I gave the church the other half.
Just a guess, but I think something like this is in your future if you bring it up to them. Inlcuding the silver you find.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
They belong to the church, buy them.
Jim
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Replies: 52 / Views: 4,146 |
Posted 12/02/2007 6:26 pm
coin_0003.jpg
