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 Replies: 40 / Views: 8,174 |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I have been trying my best over the last year or so to get the wedding set coins recognised by PCGS as Specimen coins to NO avail  Which one of these is the wedding set coin  It is blatantly obvious the Wedding Set coin is specially produced so why on earth cant they get a SP designation from PCGS is beyond Me. This One?   Or This One?   |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
Second one? I can't believe PCGS won't recognize that as SP
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
7096 Posts |
On the Packaging these come in it states "The Gem Uncirculated finish coins have been SPECIALLY produced to ensure that they are free of Blemishes usually associated with uncirculated coins" I have sent the packaging along with letters when I have submitted these coins on two occasions without success What part of "Specially Produced" doesn't equate to a Specimen Coin  To me these coins have the look of the older Pre Decimal Proof Coins that were produced without the "Frosting" that the Modern coins have. The strike is amazing and the fields are faultless. I will persevere  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
908 Posts |
The problem is if they recognise them then what do we do with all of the wedding set MS graded coins.Get them regraded ? I'll bet there are thousands graded as MS.It would be a real pain in the a....
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
The problem is if they recognise them then what do we do with all of the wedding set MS graded coins.Get them regraded ? I'll bet there are thousands graded as MS.It would be a real pain in the a.... I think you will find that 99.99% of all the MS69 decimals from 2002-2009 are in fact Wedding set coins and NOT normal Business strike coins. Look at all the other years from 1966 until now and see how many of them have graded at MS69 in the population reports on PCGS I'm not talking the NLCT type issues here simply the circulation designs. The Wedding set coins are a super low mintage and cost a premium and should be duly recognised for what they are. Look at the 2005 Remembrance 50 cent coin with a mintage of over 20 million business strike coins and a mintage of only 3,627 in the Wedding sets. The same thing applies to the 1970 Captain Cook 50 cent coin in the purple Box with a mintage of just over half a million and the circulation pieces numbered over 16 million. Bloody hard to get one of these designated SP at PCGS as well  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
762 Posts |
Its very easy to guess which one came from the wedding set. That really is a superb coin.
What PCGS thinks is pretty irrelevant to me.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
Quote:
On the Packaging these come in it states "The Gem Uncirculated finish coins have been SPECIALLY produced to ensure that they are free of Blemishes usually associated with uncirculated coins"
I believe the problem is that to PCGS the fact that it says gem uncirculated and specially produced only means to them that they are specially handled unc examples from fresh dies. it seems to me that they are covering their butt in a way since the actual mint packaging says "gem uncirculated finish" instead of specimen. just my Two Centsyou should get a letter or email from the mint saying they are specimen strikes and send it to pcgs...if that doesn't convince them its just ignorance or not caring on their part. Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
I'm more worried about the fact that they devalue non-wedding set coins in top grades. A normal MS69 from that era is a truly rare coin but from the wedding set it's only slightly above average.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
An MS69 graded decimal not from a wedding set is indeed a rarety in any year wwww.
The trouble is that there have been hundreds of wedding set coins graded MS so far and I imagine that it would be difficult for the average collector to differenciate between the wedding set and the circulation strike coins.
Therin lies the problem, These coins should have been graded as SP from the onset and the circulation strikes in high grades would hold values that reflect their rarety.
From a collectors point of view the wedding set coins are by far the best option to obtain circulation design coins from 2002 to 2009 in pristine condition.
What does supprise me is I cant recall any of these coins attaining a MS70 grade considering the consistant quality of these issues.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
I believe there are one or two MS70 wedding set coins.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
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I believe there are one or two MS70 wedding set coins. I just had a look at the PCGS pop report and there are 4 coins graded at MS70 1x 2002 20c 1x 2003 volunteers 20c 2x 2008 20c I haven't got one graded at that YET but I have had quite a few at MS69 and I have just sent another 36 away to be graded. Only a matter of time before I crack the MS70 barrier , I have achieved PR70 on quite a few occasions but the MS70 grade still eludes me |
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Valued Member
Australia
75 Posts |
From what I hear, all four MS70s were from the same submission several years ago. None have graded MS70 since.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
762 Posts |
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Therin lies the problem, These coins should have been graded as SP from the onset and the circulation strikes in high grades would hold values that reflect their rarety. So trout, are you saying that if wedding set coins got graded SP that collectors would pay a premium for a MS69 coin over a SP69 coin? |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
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So trout, are you saying that if wedding set coins got graded SP that collectors would pay a premium for a MS69 coin over a SP69 coin?
If your Business Strikes are anything like ours, rightly so. 69 for a Specimen is a reasonable goal, MS69 very much not. The Specimens will have the cachet of low mintage, tilting the demand-supply equation somewhat, but one would think their quantity sufficient to satisfy the small subset desiring them by comparison to Business Strike collectors. As an example, to the best of my knowledge there are zero Susan B. Anthony dollars in MS69, much less 70, while those years which saw Proofs struck number PR70DCAM's in the hundreds. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I just received this email from Dion Buck from RAM. Quote:
Hi Trout,
Our term for the wedding set finish up until 2009 (i think that was when it finished as gem and went to proof in 2010) was Gem Uncirculated. Other parties may refer to this finish as specimen, this term is subject to a little variance in meaning across the industry but is mostly approriate I guess, but I'll explain the nature of our term Gem Uncirculated.
The dies for these coins were polished to the same quality as proof dies, however no frosting was applied - to maintain the uncirculated appearance. The proof polishing process is extremely labour intensive, done by hand with tiny tools under binocular microscopes. The blanks used for Gem Uncirculated coins were proof blanks, of a higher quality than circ/unc blanks. The blank preparation process for proof coins was also followed, which uses a variety of techniques to purify, or clear the blank surface of defects (pickling, burnishing, heat treatment etc.). Finally the coins were struck as per proof coin process, on a proof press, hand loaded and inspected, struck four times precisely, and then encapsulated. These coins were absolutely unique, and while I never got around to asking all purchasers, I had a pretty strong inkling that more collectors bought this set, than wedding go-ers.
Why are you getting this message? you partook in a thread that had some sort of technical fuzz out last year, and I have never been able to read it, or reply until now. I'll either delete or lock the thread but I wanted to share, as the Gem finish was one of my favourites!
Thanks, dion.
Edited by trout1105
04/17/2015 07:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
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So trout, are you saying that if wedding set coins got graded SP that collectors would pay a premium for a MS69 coin over a SP69 coin? It is far too late for that to happen because of the sheer number of wedding set issues already slabbed as MS. From the description of the minting process I got in the email from Dion these coins are certainly NOT your run of the mill circulation coin. Non frosted Proof or SP is what they truly are and it would be nice to see them recognised as such because IMHO they are by far the best examples of these coins in the years 2002-2009 available. As the Mintage is relatively low compared to the business strike coins these will eventually in the years to come become sought after by collectors. I will be forwarding the email to PCGS. |
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Replies: 40 / Views: 8,174 |
Posted 04/09/2015 9:19 pm
