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 Replies: 22 / Views: 2,971 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
626 Posts |
Hi all, looking for opinions on this one. What am I seeing to the right of the 2nd T in TRUST and below the right corner of the bust?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4809 Posts |
We've seen this a few times. I think most of the time it's attributed to a dropped die. But this does look clash like to me. Let's wait for Mike D or Coop to chime in.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts |
It's some type of die damage. Since there's a short line next to the T of TRUST and an identical short line beneath Lincoln's bust, my guess is that this is rare case of collar clash in which the clash mark appears in the field.
The term "dropped die" is not recognized by the hobby.
Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
04/21/2015 08:38 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6478 Posts |
Quote:
rare  This is going to be fun to watch and learn from. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3644 Posts |
That's what I thought last night when I saw this! Didn't want to comment at all because I don't have enough knowledge about collar clashes but I thought it was the only thing that makes sense-pretty interesting
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3644 Posts |
I think the die must have been at quite an angle when it did clash?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts |
I assume you mean that the pole involved in the clash was tilted up. That's possible.
I must emphasize that the diagnosis I floated is quite tentative. It's entirely possible that something else is responsible for the damage.
Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
04/21/2015 7:14 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I think the die must have been at quite an angle when it did clash?
There's probably a very narrow range of tilt (on the z-axis) of the hammer die which could cause this - too little, and the clash will be closer together or even continuous. Too much, and the opposite side of the die will either hit something first (clash on the upper side of the tilt) or hit the low edge of the tilt (lower side clashing). I'm assuming - if this is a collar clash, not that anything else makes sense at the moment - the clash would more likely happen on the lower side of the tilt than the upper, although that seems possible as well. The lower side would allow more tilt latitude, making the clash more possible. What I wouldn't give for accurate engineering drawings of how these presses are put together, and high-res images of an actual die. I've been looking for the latter for a while without success, aside one Commem. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4809 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts |
Looks like the same sort of damage, although this die dent does not have a companion.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4809 Posts |
Thanks Mike. Yes, just the series of dents in the same general area. Nothing more to the north like the OPs coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1781 Posts |
To illustrate, a die that was tilted enough and banged into a collar could pick up the circular lines from the collar if positioned something like in the image below. This is an actual die that I placed in a tilted position over a collar. Of course the collar could be what is titled to the same effect. Click on the image to enlarge.  Die and Collar from my collection of broken/defective minting tools.Edited by koinpro
04/22/2015 4:57 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
That's why you're Ken Potter and I'm not.  My gut tells me the collar is more likely to tilt that much than the die. My visualization of the equipment (wish I had those drawings) says a fragment under the collar could do this, and a fast-moving setup guy would more easily miss that. Die alignment should be something approached like a Takeoff Checklist but the collar might fly under the radar. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
I'm thinking more like Mike Diamond said. The planchet was damaged going into the collar. When the coin was struck it removed most of the arc of the line in the field areas, but not close to the devices. It it were on the die, then that full arc would be seen.
I stand corrected.
Ken Do you have an images on how the feeder fingers work?
Edited by coop
04/22/2015 8:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts |
I never said or implied it was planchet damage. I fully believe it is die damage. A tilted and slightly offset die or collar could create the short, slightly curved die dents that are seen on the obverse face. But I cannot be sure this is the cause.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Replies: 22 / Views: 2,971 |
Posted 04/21/2015 08:37 am
