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Coin Fields For Making My Own Database

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Valued Member
Babar's Avatar
Pakistan
207 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  06:40 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Babar to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey all! It's been a while, how you been?

So I tried out a couple of free (currently again a jobless student, so I am restricted to that ) coin collecting database softwares, but they all had their own problems- focusing only on the US, not having a complete list of world coins, not having all the details, etc. So I figured, probably like a million here before me (do tell if someone here has made a database thing I could use, though), to make my own.

I envisioned that whenever I'd add a new coin, I'd for the most part, simply have to select the respective descriptors from a drop-down list that I had built up before (and can add to later also, if necessary). Or if I entered a country and KM number, stuff like the weight, dimensions, orientation, etc. would fill in automatically (having been written by me before).

I don't mind a little extra work, just as long as it is as comprehensive as possible, but almost immediately I ran into issues regarding fieldnames or descriptors. Like:
-I figured "KM Number" and "Country" would be a no-brainer, but then what about tokens or coins of multiple countries that aren't differentiated (like Central Africa)?
-Should "Year" should be in gregorian, the local number system or both (I'll probably go for both)?
-How to differentiate between currency, value and denomination, especially for countries that changed their currency or coin values several times?
-How to incorporate metallic composition if I want to go into detail about percentages and stuff (like 25% Nickel 75% Copper instead of just "Copper-Nickel), or whether one metal is plating another.
-How to handle errors?

I suppose I could just have loads of text for each of those fields, describing in detail each coin, but like I said, I'd prefer to be as comprehensive and general as possible, allowing me to do searches like listing how many coins are a specific size or smaller, how many coins are a specific shape, how many are demonetised and so on.

As far as the technical side of things, I think I've got that covered, I've done programming, I've used MS Access before (probably use that or LibreOffice Base since I'm not that proficient in SQL yet), I understand about Database Normalisation, and the probable need to have several tables for each of the properties I mentioned, etc.
But if you have any help or experience of possible pitfalls or suggestions as to my questions, I'd appreciate the help!
Valued Member
bungle's Avatar
Japan
349 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bungle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Krause basically has these fields:
Country Japan
KM# Y#125
Denomination 5 Yen
Weight 3.75g
Fineness 1.000
Actual 0.121oz
Diameter 22mm
Composition Brass
Description Ruler: Akihito... Obv: Hole in center... Rev: ...
Date Yr.12(2000)
Mintage 8,804,000

You don't really need Fineness and Actual weight unless the coins contain precious metals.

Quote:
-I figured "KM Number" and "Country" would be a no-brainer, but then what about tokens or coins of multiple countries that aren't differentiated (like Central Africa)?

I would just put whatever I felt like as the country.
If a coin has a KM number then there is a certain country name associated with it.

Quote:
-Should "Year" should be in gregorian, the local number system or both (I'll probably go for both)?

One field for both is probably adequate. If there is a local number system, put the Gregorian date in parentheses.

Quote:
-How to differentiate between currency, value and denomination, especially for countries that changed their currency or coin values several times?

Just put everything in in the denomination field.
For countries like Zimbabwe you can add a currency code field, but the actual coins don't have a currency code on them.

Quote:
-How to incorporate metallic composition if I want to go into detail about percentages and stuff (like 25% Nickel 75% Copper instead of just "Copper-Nickel), or whether one metal is plating another.

If necessary, put it in the description. Krause does this for bi-metallic coins.
The description field actually consists of what you could call subfields: Ruler, Obverse, Reverse, Edge (reeded/plain/.), Notes, and so on.

Quote:
-How to handle errors?

Errors are unique. You could have a field with the type of error, but this is not very useful unless you have many error coins.
You should have one table with a simple catalog of many coins, and another table containing only the coins that you have.
To this other table you add photos, if there is an error a description of the error, grade, and other information that is unique to each coin.

Quote:
I suppose I could just have loads of text for each of those fields, describing in detail each coin, but like I said, I'd prefer to be as comprehensive and general as possible, allowing me to do searches like listing how many coins are a specific size or smaller, how many coins are a specific shape, how many are demonetised and so on.

Most coins are round, so instead of adding a shape field you could just write "Shape: square" and so on in the description.
Then when you want to list all the square coins just do a text search for "Shape: square"
Same with demonetized coins, add "Demonetized: Yes" or "Demonetized: In 2000" then you can just search for "Demonetized:"

Text search is easier to use than a bunch of drop-down lists, if there are too many options to select from.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Think of this. If you keep on collecting coins, someday you may well have thousands of coins. Many thousands possibly. Now imagine attempting to document everyone of them. I've been collecting coins for well over 60 years and I do have virtually many thousands of coins. I do try to keep track of many of them but that does get to be a mess. I use the Excel spread sheet system. I only enter the type of coin as a header such as Mercury dime. Then by date, mint mark, grade. Prices change all the time so that is just a waste of time. My original cost too is now unnessary since who cares what I paid for a coin 25 years ago. Where I got a coin too is rediculous. The size, weight, color, etc. are all just not required after many, many years. And even my basic documentation is now becoming to extensive. For example I have 12 Mercury dime Albums. An Excel spread sheet for each Album is now becoming a lot of documentation. And with over 100 Albums, all just to much like a job.
I always try to remember a boss of mine some time back that said always use the KISS system. Keep It Simple Stupid.
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matttheriley's Avatar
United States
1512 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matttheriley to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Have you seen the website, http://www.numista.com? It may be helpful.
Valued Member
Babar's Avatar
Pakistan
207 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Babar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all your help so far!


Quote:
One field for both is probably adequate. If there is a local number system, put the Gregorian date in parentheses.

Just put everything in in the denomination field.

But then I'd have problems sorting by date or by value, no?


Quote:
Have you seen the website, http://www.numista.com? It may be helpful.

I actually use numista, and it has a cool excel export option, the problem being that even though it saves all this information when you enter a coin (size, shape, orientation, etc.), the excel sheet it exports only has Country, KM#, Coin type (which includes the description and denomination), Year (which also includes the mintmark when applicable), and Quantity.


Quote:

Think of this. If you keep on collecting coins, someday you may well have thousands of coins. Many thousands possibly. Now imagine attempting to document everyone of them. I've been collecting coins for well over 60 years and I do have virtually many thousands of coins. I do try to keep track of many of them but that does get to be a mess. I use the Excel spread sheet system. I only enter the type of coin as a header such as Mercury dime. Then by date, mint mark, grade. Prices change all the time so that is just a waste of time. My original cost too is now unnessary since who cares what I paid for a coin 25 years ago. Where I got a coin too is rediculous. The size, weight, color, etc. are all just not required after many, many years. And even my basic documentation is now becoming to extensive.

Like I said, numista provides an option if I just want it simple, the problem is that then searching is troublesome. I seem to remember you collect loads of world coins as well-if one were only collecting of a single country it might make sense, but for lots of coins of all over the world, does such a rudimentary number of descriptors work out? The way I figure it, if I end up having thousands of coins in the future, better I start documenting them now rather than deciding on it when there are so many .
Edited by Babar
05/11/2015 1:07 pm
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wheatiefan's Avatar
United States
507 Posts
 Posted 05/15/2015  11:37 am  Show Profile   Check wheatiefan's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add wheatiefan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Babar,

I have made a database for my coins. Like you I collect world coins.

To get right to the point, here are the fields in my main database:
PRIMARY KEY  Automatically generated by database program
        ID1 
        ID2  Country or Coin Issuing Entity
      VALUE  For the numerical part of the denomination
      DENOM  For the name part of the denomination
      YEARS
       CAT1  Usually Krause catalog number
       CAT2  Other secondary catalog number if necessary
COMPOSITION  
   DIAMETER  
     WEIGHT  
        ASW  
        AGW  
       HAVE  
       FLIP  
      NOTES  
       PICT
If you read past discussions you'll see some people stop referring to coins as being from countries and instead from 'Coin Issuing Entities' which is not elegant but accurate.
In my case I use ID2 for the entity.

ID1 is an umbrella that might include lots of ID2s.

Examples:
ID1                    ID2
German States          Bavaria
German States          Wurttemberg
India Princely States  Nawanagar
India Princely States  Jaipur
Notgeld                Aachen
Notgeld                Munchen
Euro                   France
Euro                   Belgium
Otherwise the ID1 is usually left empty.

I have separated the VALUE and DENOM so it looks like:
VALUE    DENOM
    1    Bolivar
   25    Cents
 2000    Dong
  2.5    Escudos
There are some judgement calls. Like is a British Halfpenny 1 HALFPENNY or is it 1/2 PENNY?

Some fields like HAVE or FLIP are checkboxes so the value is either 1 or 0 - yes or no.
In these cases have = checked or yes or 1 means I have it in the collection, unchecked or no or 0 means it's on the wantlist.
FLIP is similar it just means whether I have printed a flip insert or not.

PICT is an example picture I have on the computer.

Not all fields are entered for each coin. Things like composition I only enter if it's interesting, like WWII or bimetallic coins.
Other fields like diameter and weight I rarely enter but sometimes it's necessary to distinguish varieties.

NOTES is a catch all field. Here is where I note things like: Square, Scalloped, 7-Sided, Holed, WWI, WWII, FAO, Commemorative, Leprosy, etc...
I use to have checkboxes for UNUSUAL SHAPES or HOLED but decided the NOTES category was easier.


Quote:
-I figured "KM Number" and "Country" would be a no-brainer, but then what about tokens or coins of multiple countries that aren't differentiated (like Central Africa)?
-Should "Year" should be in gregorian, the local number system or both (I'll probably go for both)?
-How to differentiate between currency, value and denomination, especially for countries that changed their currency or coin values several times?
-How to incorporate metallic composition if I want to go into detail about percentages and stuff (like 25% Nickel 75% Copper instead of just "Copper-Nickel), or whether one metal is plating another.
-How to handle errors?

To answer the rest of your questions:
Tokens might need their own database with different fields. Things like Central African States I use as is in the ID2 field.

For year I put whatever is on the coin. If a Nepali coin says 2025 or an Egyptian coin says 1404, that's what I enter. Japan coins are listed as Showa 33 or Heisei 18, Taiwanese coins are listed as 55, etc.

I enter the number and name parts separately as VALUE and DENOM. If I can't read the denom like on Arabic or Asian coins I trust what Krause or Numista lists it as.

Your metallic composition field can be a free-entry so you can type whatever you want. Then it'll be up to you to be consistent so you know what to search for in the future.

If you're really into errors you might need a separate database. Otherwise I use the NOTES field as a catchall and sometimes enter things like 'Damaged'. Again so long as you enter 'error' every time you will be able to search for 'error' in the future and get all results.

You may need more than one database.
I will probably have separate databases for cast Chinese coins and ancient coins, as the way they are categorized doesn't fall neatly into the existing fields.
You may need to do similar with error coins or tokens.

----
I use MySQL database.
What is really great about it is that I have written a simple webpage with HTML and PHP (and I am not a programmer).
Now I can access the coins straight from my webpage without having to use the database program at all.
I can add new coins or search the fields for matches of existing coins.
This is really neat when linked to the pictures.
I included a description and pictures in an older thread.

Also I can print out pages of flip inserts 48 at a time.
They are properly sized with little dashed lines to show where to cut.
The inserts are autogenerated from whatever fields I want, usually ID2, years, and catalog #.

I don't know if other databases offer that accessibility.
That's why I went with the MySQL / PHP / HTML setup.
Before starting this project I knew beginner HTML and nothing about PHP or SQL.
I have learned a lot in my free time and it is not overwhelming.


You are right that the programs available are inadequate.
I would encourage more people to experiment and post about it.

-wheatiefan
Valued Member
Babar's Avatar
Pakistan
207 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2015  05:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Babar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for all that detail, wheatiefan, I almost missed it!

As far as mine is currently progressing, I admit I've probably gone a little overboard. I've got 10 separate tables!
There "Issuing Authority" as well as "Country" (plus a third to connect the two), and I've probably mangled the meaning of both terms. So Issuing Authority would be, for example, "British India" (the table also includes Year Start and Year End), and the Countries connected to that would be Bangladesh, Burma, India and Pakistan. These two would be connected to a the third table, which is then included in the coin table.
"Issuing Authority" is also connected to "Currency" with a third table (that is the one with the code included in my main coin table. It also includes "Year Start" and "Year End"), so I could handle issuing authorities that switched to the decimal system, or redid their currency following inflation, or switched to the euro, but didn't really change identity as a country.
I've also complicated up the Composition with a "Materials" table that has base materials used in coins (with everything from Aluminium, Antimony and Carbon to Vanadium, Zinc and Zirconium), which connects to an "Alloys/Mixtures" table through a third table (this is the one with the code that shows up in my main coins table) which has specific percentages.

The thing that is bothering me now is that how to store YEARS (I decided to have 2 fields for that, one with like you said, the date written on the coin, and a standard Gregorian date, the same for all coins). LibreOffice Base (which is what I'm using...still not comfortable with MySQL and such) doesn't seem to store BC very well. I don't HAVE any BC coins right now, but I might in the future. I suppose I could store them as a simple number with negative representing BC, but that'd be a bit confusing, because there's no 0 year...
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2015  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a site I really like, the builder and I have had a few discussions, he is not making this commercially available (yet) though I really like his designs, done online with SQL backdoor database. (I think). Thought you might enjoy seeing this from at least a design point of view.

http://coins.obscurefinds.com/
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Valued Member
Babar's Avatar
Pakistan
207 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2015  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Babar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, now I've got a problem that's really got me scratching my head, so I'm resurrecting this thread AGAIN (sorry!).
How would I store coin shape? Like I said, I'd like to be as generalised as possible to allow for the greatest flexibility in searching and indexing and counting, so simply a text field might not work. But I'm having trouble thinking of what else I can do. I really appreciate the links
For the most part, thankfully coins are regular polygons or circles (sometimes with rounded edges and corners), so I figured I'd have a separate table called SHAPES with something like "Number of sides", "Rounding radius" and "Name". And then call one of those fields for any shaped coin, and for any shaped hole.

The problem here being that for some coins the names fit sorta weirdly ("Number of sides" for a scalloped coin I suppose it'd be the number of scallops and the "Rounding radius" would be the radius of one of the scallops?).
The other problem would be irregularly shaped coins. Quite a few coins seem to be country shaped, and then there are a whole lot of coins (mostly I'm seeing commemoratives from Somalia which hopefully shouldn't be a problem, but who knows) shaped like animals, musical instruments, etc. I suppose I could just use the "Name" portion for unique stuff like that.

If someone has some suggestions how I can do this better, I'd really appreciate that!
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Half's Avatar
United States
606 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2015  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Half to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Make generic "animal shape", "country shape", "Misc geometric" descriptors and then attach a picture?
Valued Member
Babar's Avatar
Pakistan
207 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2015  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Babar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem with that would be that it'd be problematic searching and indexing. Although for irregularly shaped coins, I might do the animal/country thing. Like for an Australia shaped coin, it'd be "australia country" for the shape description (or like "elephant animal" for an elephant shaped coin), and the radius/number of sides would be empty. That way I'd be able to search "country" and get a list of all of those (if I ever got many).
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