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100% Newbie Question - Detecting Cleaned Coins

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mahgobbi's Avatar
United States
549 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2007  7:58 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mahgobbi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Let me start by saying I am a complete newbie. My kids and I just started collecting this week. We started with a bag of 5,000 wheats and we're working on filling a wheat book.

My question is how I differentiate between a cleaned/worthless coin and one which is truly in good condition. We stumbled across a lot of coins like the one posted below. They appear to be in very good condition, but I don't want to fill up the book with coins which look pretty, but are worthless due to having been cleaned. I took a photo of a random coin which, in my newbie eyes, looks great. Is it really a nice coin, or has it been cleaned? How can I tell?

Maybe if some of you have photos of cleaned coins I can look at it'll show me what to look for. Thanks.

100%-Newbie-Question---Detecting-Cleaned-Coins

100%-Newbie-Question---Detecting-Cleaned-Coins
Edited by mahgobbi
12/21/2007 8:00 pm
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bmanofnbc's Avatar
United States
1424 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2007  8:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bmanofnbc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no expert on detecting cleaned coins either but from your pictures that coin looks fine to me.

Where did you get your bag of wheaties? ebay?
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Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2007  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think off hand the coin looks okay. As far as learning about cleaned coins, you can learn a LOT by doing a search for "clean" on this board as well as the PCGS and NGC boards.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2007  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First impression: This one has been cleaned. I could be wrong, as I'm hardly an expert on Cents.

I'm leery of the shine it presents. That could be due to the type of lighting and your camera settings (nice pics, by the way), or it could be due to the coin being unoriginal. I would expect a nice Uncirculated 1939 Cent to retain shine, and yours certainly looks Uncirculated or very close, but that also makes it the type of coin someone would want to "restore" a shine to if it happened to be dark or dirty.

The horizontal striations on the reverse bother me, also. Although I've seen such lines on other issues, I don't recall ever seeing such prominent die polishing lines on Cents. If the lines extend onto the letters or devices anywhere, you can assume it's cleaned; if not, they're likely die polishing lines and were minted right into the coin.

Cleaning can be tough to determine if you're not familiar with that specific issue. Mechanical cleaning, something done with a tool or instrument, is relatively easy to spot. Polishing is a little more difficult, but still easy to catch if you've seen a few of that type of coin in Uncirculated condition. Chemical cleaning, done right, can be very difficult to detect for even an experienced hand. Your best weapon is experience. Except for coins which have been brushed or polished, it's very difficult to accurately photograph a cleaned coin so that the cleaning is obvious.
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mahgobbi's Avatar
United States
549 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2007  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mahgobbi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the info. I will try to search again for topics on cleaning. I did it earlier and I never found any photos of "cleaned" coins to compare to natural ones.

I got the coins on ebay. I paid $240 including s/h. I'm not sure if we got a good mix or not, since I've never done this before.

The box was a little over 35 pounds, so I probably had closer to 5,100 - 5,200 coins. I ended up with the following:

Just over 1 pound of 1909 - 1919

1.5 pounds of 1920 - 1929

4.5 pounds of 1930 - 1939

4 Indian Head cents (one is very nice, two are in decent condition, and one is so bad you can't even read a date on it)

The balance was 40s and 50s.


There were good number of coins in similar condition to the one I posted. I don't think I found any key or semi-key dates. My daughter is insisting that one of the coins is a 1909 S, but I'm almost certain it's a 1919 S. Either way, it's in bad shape. Like I said, I'm not sure if I got a good mix or not, but the kids and I had a good time sorting through them and the kids got SO excited every time they found a 1909, 1910, indian head, etc..

Now I'm going to resell them and buy another bag
Edited by mahgobbi
12/21/2007 9:18 pm
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SA4H's Avatar
United States
2764 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2007  02:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SA4H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First of all, I have to say that I am learning this too and can not really tell you on how to look for "cleaned" coins (especially circulated coins), since there are many type/kind of cleaning - some are considered "restorative cleaning" (which is ok for many non-hardcore collectors - most dealer will do this), other type/kind of cleaning can damage the coin and devalue it. AND you need to train your eyes to know it - experiences count!

Regarding this coin: Based on your picture, this seemed like an uncirculated coin in full red. The obverse (face) side seemed original, only lacking some luster on the field in front of Lincoln face and a little bid behind Lincoln head. The reverse is a different story - the mint luster only remain in some places: the top left part of the U in United, between words, and the lower part of the right wheat stalk. Combine the lack of mint luster and those horizontal lines, the word "Cleaned" keep popping up. HOWEVER, it's still a good find - I will keep any and all pre 1940 cents in F/VF or better and XF or better for post 1940 wheat cents(clean or not) when searching through lot of wheat cents.

On a side note, if you ever decided to sell, maybe you can put them up here first before put on ebay......

Have fun searching. However, the best reward is the excitement and time sharing that you are having with your children. It's those things that money can't buy!

Happy Holiday.
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j_h_s's Avatar
United States
1934 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2007  04:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j_h_s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Superdave said, "The horizontal striations on the reverse bother me, also."

They are suspicious to me, too....almost as if the coin were buffed or burnished. No expert here.
Jim

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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2007  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a link to an old thread which has quite a few pictures of cleaned coins

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...PIC_ID=13643


as for the cent pictured above ,,I think it has been cleaned ,, many times the lightling and angle of the photograph can hide the more obvious indicators ,, I would bet that with a little different lighting the hairlines would be much more visable than they are .

Metalman
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okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2007  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doesn't look cleaned to me. I would say a mint state full red Lincoln Cent. The lighting is different on the reverse and what some are calling cleaning lines are die marks most likely. Look for unnatural toning and brightness with slight wear on the high points. This coin shows none of those characteristics. If I saw it on ebay I would bid. Just my opinion.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2007  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just went through some cents that my wife had in her change bowl. I pull it off her dresser every once in a while just to see whats there. I came across several cents that had similar lines on them. I'm no expert, but the lines didn't cross any of the letters or devices, leading me to believe they were die marks of some sort.

You might want to hang on to this coin until you can get an opinion from someone knowledgeable that can see the coin up close. If it turns out to be cleaned then you will have an idea of what to look for, with an example in hand you can use for comparison purposes.
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