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1984 P LMC "T" In United

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lawest's Avatar
United States
1998 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2015  08:50 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add lawest to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The T in united looks strange to me, any ideas?


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1984-P-LMC-

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1984-P-LMC-

1984-P-LMC-

1984-P-LMC-

1984-P-LMC-
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jdiablo30's Avatar
United States
946 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2015  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdiablo30 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a tad bit of die chatter. I would say machine doubled,but I am only seeing it in that one area. Maybe someone else with more expertise can chime in and tell for sure what we have going on here.
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mcshilling's Avatar
Canada
9159 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2015  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like PMD, it got hit by something and it pushed the side of the T out.
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ChildOfTheWheat's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 05/17/2015  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ChildOfTheWheat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
it took a hit.
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stoneman227's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep , a hit
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stoneman227's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh,and the last few pics were will lit to show that area, well done !
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John1's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 05/17/2015  09:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like it took a hit to me. If you look close you will see it looks wider by the displacement of the metal.
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koinpro's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 05/17/2015  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The '"hit" is on die -- not on the coin. Neat, I have not seen that one.
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lawest's Avatar
United States
1998 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2015  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lawest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there a numismatic term for this? Or is it just described as a die hit?
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mcshilling's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ken, can you please explain why you think that and whats the difference?
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koinpro's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin is a nice uncirculated Red/Brown (or I suppose it could be high grade AU) and there are no signs of chased or otherwise moved metal on the coin that would suggest PMD. Also, the area in question is raised and rounded and terminates well below the length of the vertical of the T. If you import one of the images into Photoshop and enlarge and sharpen, you'll see a clear area of field between the aberration and the vertical of the T which you can see in the images here if you look hard enough (Image #7 is best). This is a die gouge that displaced some of the metal of the die toward the cavity of the T and thus a malformed T (as John1 also noted earlier). This can happen when a gouge or dent is deep and next to the cavity of a die. This most likely would have occurred prior to the die being hardened while the steel was quite malleable.

Shown here is an example of a 1916-D "Embedded D" Buffalo nickle. Notice that the D has caused the C to be malformed. Coin submitted by Joe Beaupied of Mich at the Michigan State Numismatic Society Convention Fall 2013.

1984-P-LMC-
Edited by koinpro
05/17/2015 3:39 pm
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koinpro's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 05/17/2015  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lawest,
I was just "playing" off the term others were using. A poor choice in my part. Generically, it could be called impact damage or being more specific a "die gouge" or "die dent". The two are very closely related and often easily confused. I'd call it a "die gouge." BTW, is the upper vertical of the T also malformed? Can you shoot an image of one of the other Ts on the reverse for comparison?
Edited by koinpro
05/17/2015 3:35 pm
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lawest's Avatar
United States
1998 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2015  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lawest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The upper vertical of the T does not looked malformed. I attached three photos; first is T in united, second is the first T in states and third is the second T in states. I tried to size them close to the same



1984-P-LMC-

1984-P-LMC-

1984-P-LMC-
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2015  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I said it looks like it took a hit, a meant the coin not the die took the hit.
John1
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koinpro's Avatar
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1781 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2015  6:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John1,

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
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koinpro's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 05/17/2015  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lawest,

Thanks for taking the extra shots. I can see that's the way it looks normally at the upper end. No big deal. I just wanted to be sure.
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