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1957-D Quarter DDO ?

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stoneman227's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  8:58 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Found four of these in a unc. roll. Not the usual Quarter Doubled die. May be something else as I don't remember seeing doubling on both sides of a bust. What I am seeing is at the throat and the ponytail of the wig.
Any thoughts ?

1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?

1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?

1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?

1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see MD on the motto so I suspect it to be MD.
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ditto.
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stoneman227's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think it is MD . MD would take away from the devise . added pics of a normal coin from the roll for comparison

1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?

1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Md did reduce the devices. You are looking at the overall shape of the devices. you need to see that the devices were in fact reduced.
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  10:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ditto
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stoneman227's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2015  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting, many thanks !
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koinpro's Avatar
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 Posted 05/18/2015  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Strong possibility this is Die Deterioration Doubling. It is not Strike Doubling ( Machine Doubling). Size of design has been greatly reduced by heavy die dressing (stoning or other abrasives). You can see that the die was so heavily dressed out that the area between Washington's ponytail and back of neck is reduced to the level of the field. Notice the tell-tail diagonal die lines in that area diagnostic of a die dressing with an abrasive. There is an outside chance that the doubling around Washington's Adam's apple is "Abrasion Doubling" - a rare form of doubling seldom seen (though common on the Robert Kennedy commemorative matte finish half dollars).
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/18/2015  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an overlay of the quarter (pre 50 States):
1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
The areas in question are abraided to remove the clash marks in that area. When the field is polished, then it reduces the fields in those areas, now showing a raised area. This is not Die Deterioration because it is not die wear, but die abrasion in those areas. Also not machine damage in those areas. The normal images are showing a coin from an VLDS die. Thanks for the images stoneman227. I'll be adding these to my educational image files.
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koinpro's Avatar
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 Posted 05/18/2015  01:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop,

On the removal of clashes, this may have been the reason for the die being so heavily dressed out, however, I see no evidence of a clash and dies are also dressed out to remove superficial die crack to extend the life of the die.
Edited by koinpro
05/18/2015 07:00 am
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stoneman227's Avatar
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 Posted 05/18/2015  05:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very informative! Thanks for looking.
Feel free to use the images Coop
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/18/2015  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The point I was making was the same thought Ken. There was a clash and it is removed totally. Leaving the marks we see on the neck area from the polishing of the dies.

Now the next questions. On the cheek of Washington: I would like to see that area close up. It looks like the cheek is indented a bit. I was wondering was it the image or is something going on there? Also the breast and legs on the Eagle look different as well?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/18/2015  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Stoneman227: Here are your images:
1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
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koinpro's Avatar
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 Posted 05/18/2015  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop,

You mean like this 1943-S?

I first saw one of these in 1980 at a local show where the old-timers were calling it the Goiter Variety. I passed on it and later always wished I hadn't so when I found one about 25 years later I snapped it up from local dealer, Chuck Avery (at three times the price I might add). It might have even been the same coin!

Lots of ideas have been thrown around as to what caused this but I suspect, improper hardening of the die may have been a factor but who knows.

The the clash scenario you described, I thought I was going crazy looking for evidence of the clash that I couldn't find. I'm glad to learn I'm not going crazy!

1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
Edited by koinpro
05/18/2015 6:54 pm
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stoneman227's Avatar
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 Posted 05/19/2015  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop
The coin , compared to the other "normal" coins does not seem to be different in the areas you mentioned. I was able to coax a bit of the clash out into the open and photographed it.
Just realized this is one of the other three coins I found from this die pair.

1957-D-Quarter-DDO-?
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