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1857-C Gold Dollar: You Vs. PCGS

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Phaedrus29's Avatar
United States
228 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  02:59 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
From a collection inherited from my father...it recently returned from PCGS. Thoughts on grade?

1857-C-Gold-Dollar:-You-Vs.-PCGS
1857-C-Gold-Dollar:-You-Vs.-PCGS
Edited by Phaedrus29
05/23/2015 03:01 am
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Fuzzy317's Avatar
United States
14463 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  03:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No comments on grade, just need to over the C
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Connor's Avatar
United States
2130 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Fuzzy...can't comment on actual grade but I can only dream of having a "c" coin in my collection one day!
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GERMANICVS's Avatar
Germany
1849 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GERMANICVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU55?
Charlotte mint - don't have any of those. Want one!
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Thundercoin's Avatar
United States
675 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  10:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thundercoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am going AU-58 for possibly just a hint of wear, but wouldn't surprise me to see this in an MS-grade. Fantastic coin, your father had great taste in his coins!
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MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-53
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Ploopy's Avatar
United States
1788 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ploopy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems worn. XF45 or low AU?
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Joe2007's Avatar
United States
3843 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joe2007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it just the photography or do the surfaces look a bit rough? With that in mind I'll say AU-Details.

Pretty cool to see a higher grade Charlotte coin posted on the forum!
Edited by Joe2007
05/23/2015 3:25 pm
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Peldini's Avatar
Canada
79 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peldini to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice coin, I have a couple dollars from 1854 myself, I always hated the weak strike in the middle of the reverse of this series. My guess is AU-55
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
United States
6478 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a lovely au55!
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU50

Very nice ;-)
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Joseph7420's Avatar
Canada
11922 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joseph7420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-53, maybe 55.
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Phaedrus29's Avatar
United States
228 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2015  11:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Joe2007 had this right on: PCGS AU Details (Damaged)

Honestly, I'm not sure what the damage is supposed to be...I'm a real beginner...but NGC and PCGS were both in agreement on this one. (It's somewhat of a long story, but the coin was submitted to NGC and then resubmitted raw to PCGS...with the same result.)
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2015  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if it was considered to have been in a bezel? There are spots on the rim which cause a bit of worry, although it's not consistent all around.
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Phaedrus29's Avatar
United States
228 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2015  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin has some accompanying paperwork, which I thought might be of interest and might be informative regarding the damage. It is a correspondence in 1988 between David Akers and someone named Sam at Sidney W. Smith & Sons I think. The initial typed letter is cut off at the end:

Dear David,
Enclosed please find the 1857-C Type III Gold Dollar about which we conversed last week. The coin was purchased from Abe Kosoff, probably in the late 1950's or early '60's; a photocopy of his envelope is enclosed.
Despite the planchet's typical porosity and crudeness, the lustre of this coin is truly impressive for a Charlotte mint coin. It does display unfortunate results of mishandling in the form of hairlining, probably caused by wiping with a cloth or tissue. Given the observation that the "nick" behind the head is not bright, but instead of the same lustre as the surrounding field, and that this mark does not evidence "moved" or "pushed" metal to one side or the other, I believe that this "nick" and subsequent dishing of the planchet was caused by foreign material or an object caught between the die and planchet at the time of striking. Furthermore, I believe that the edge mark at 3:30 of the reverse was caused in the attempt to remove the coin from die after striking, the bend having caused it to be jammed in the die. This mark is also of matching color to the rest of the coin, confirming to me that it was contemporary to the minting process. If I'm wrong on this assertion, at the minimum the color indicates that the edge nick is an old, rather than a more recent "injury".
Your confirmation or rejection of my assertions will be sincerely appreciated, as will be any other comments by you in light of your acknowledged expertise and experience. Please.... [typed section in my scan ends there]

And handwritten response from Akers:

Dear Sam,
I've examined the enclosed 1857-C Gold Dollar and agree with most of your comments. The mark behind the head certainly appears to be as made and undoubtedly caused the bend in the planchet. Whether or not the coin was ever "pinned" in the die is conjecture obviously and probably did not actually occur in this case (the bend and problems are too minor). The reverse edge nick is something that clearly has occurred since striking but how it happened is anybody's guess.
The coin overall grades AU-55 (for an 1857-C) but I don't feel it is of sufficient value to be included in Auction '89 which is the only sale I have scheduled.
I hope this information is of help to you.
Sincerely,
David Akers
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