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Impaired Proof Or A Fake?

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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  7:03 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin was only minted as a proof this particular year.
Is this a fake coin or is it an impaired proof?

Sellers Pic's
Impaired-Proof-Or-A-Fake?
Impaired-Proof-Or-A-Fake?
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not an expert on the series at all, but the surfaces look off to me...
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it is a fake it is a very good one.
Here are the images from the NGC website, the coin matches perfectly.
http://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/...-duid-144061


Impaired-Proof-Or-A-Fake?
Impaired-Proof-Or-A-Fake?
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was referring to the seemingly 'graininess' of the coins surface, especially on the OBV

Here is an example certified by PCGS:

Impaired-Proof-Or-A-Fake?

Even as an impaired proof, something about the one you posted doesn't pass the 'eye test' for me... I am not familiar enough with the series to point out exactly what it is...
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Canadian-Banknotes's Avatar
Canada
4944 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  8:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian-Banknotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know this series at all, and I am only basing my opinion on the original examples shown in this thread.

When looking at the sellers pictures, the first thing I notice is graininess that jdmern mentions as well as an overall lack of detail; This is always a good indicator of a fake. The second thing is the symbols on the reverse of the coin, they seem thicker and lack the intricacy that is shown on the genuine coins. Look at the symbols with loops for example (Bottom row of symbols on the reverse of the coin); on the genuine coin there is a clear gap, but on the coin you posted these areas are almost completely filled in.

The raised metal abnormalities on the Kings neck, and on the reverse above the symbol that looks like a "T" (Top row of symbols on the reverse) are also concerning.
Edited by Canadian-Banknotes
06/03/2015 8:14 pm
Valued Member
Canada
488 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob Levi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I vote fake. The grainy surface reminds me of the fake toonie I found.
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ErrorCoins222's Avatar
United States
1699 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2015  07:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ErrorCoins222 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No good!
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United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2015  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a fake and not a good one at that, very obvious.
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PatAR's Avatar
United States
262 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2015  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PatAR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed. Those surfaces are questionable in my opinion.
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wonghinghi's Avatar
Hong Kong
1270 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  04:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wonghinghi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A poor fake to me also.
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  06:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Impaired fake. Obvious signs of a cast counterfeit.
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colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note the air bubbles? on the neck and the three below the bust at K-5.

Die transfer cast - IMO.

No sharpness.

JPL
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin is a numismatic forgery. It is NOT a counterfeit. It was not created to enter circulation at face value. The difference is VERY IMPORTANT and is the basis for value in the area of Counterfeits and forgeries.

There is no requirement to be an expert in a particular series as long as you know what the different modern forgery methods produce. You need to know the "look" of a forgery. You get to know it by looking at numismatic forgeries every chance you get. After a relatively brief time, anyone can learn to recognize the VAST majority of Numismatic forgeries. It is only when it comes to early counterfeits and extremely well made numismatic forgeries that you need an expert.

This coin as noted by John Lorenzo has the appearance of a transfer impression. He saw the same problems that I do. The coin itself is cast. Possibly a centrifugal cast in a plastic mold, typical of the past 20-30 years.

The small raised lumps on the surface of the coin were caused by air bubbles trapped against the mold surface that left small voids. Typical molds used in this process contain multiple impressions (the same or various coins). In this way they produce many minor varieties.

This method also produces images that have lost some to much of the fine detail - and the fields are irregular. This loss of data depends greatly on the casting material used to make the impression. The look is unmistakable once you see it a few times. Since these molds can make a copy of any coin the forgers happen to possess the varieties are endless.

So my advice is simply to get to know what this method produces.
Quote:
WHAT THE COINS MADE THIS WAY LOOK LIKE.
All fakes made from this method will have similar characteristics.

You can then make the diagnosis without having ever seen a genuine issue.
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