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 Replies: 19 / Views: 2,955 |
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Pillar of the Community
921 Posts |
"The U.S. government hasn't given up its multiyear fight to hang on to 10 rare gold coins that a federal appeals court recently ruled should be given back to the heirs of a Philadelphia coin dealer who obtained them decades ago under mysterious circumstances" http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2015/07/02...eagle-coins/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6478 Posts |
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"The family of a thief now stands to benefit in the millions of dollars on the basis of property that belongs to the people of the United States," government lawyers wrote in their 77-page petition. Do they even know how he obtained them? HE BOUGHT THEM. He is not the real thief. The chief what ever of the mint was.  They are jerks. Just totally selfish jerks. They want to store some of the most beautiful and rarest coins ever in some room rather than having them out on the market for the people to ENJOY. To the government, that is just 10 of their coins, to the rest of the world, they are beautiful pieces of art that need to be desired by the world of collectors. Where is the logic in keeping them in a room where no one goes? Their only reasong is, oh, they were ours first, na na na nan naaaaa. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
When the decision came down, you knew it just a matter of time before our crybaby Justice Department had another Domald Duck fit and took up the fight again. What a bunch of morons.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6478 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Have you guys even read the significant parts of the story ? It has been well documented in the history books and at the trial, that the coins were stolen from the government.
The appeals court overturned "justice" that was decided by an impartial jury of their peers due to a procedural technicality, not because they believed for one minute that Grandpa didn't steal these coins.
So if I steal 10 surplus Army Hummers from an unguarded base and attempt to sell them to a used car dealer, the Gov't is a bunch of "cry baby morans" if they try to get them back ?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Wouldn't the statute of limitations come into play at that point? The coins were stolen 82 years ago. When the Saddle Ridge Hoard was found, the government didn't try to confiscate the coins, even though the coins were very likely stolen or acquired through illegitimate means.
The "only" '33 double eagle was allowed to go to auction despite being stolen as well--the owner just had to pay the US government $20.
Let the coins go to auction, collect taxes on the sales, and be done with it.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
They left something out in their petition.
"The family of a thief now stands to benefit in the millions of dollars on the basis of property that belongs to the people of the United States, because we didn't obey the law.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
forfeiture law is pretty black letter (well established for you non-legal folks), the appeals court that held the coins should go back to the family did so because the government failed to comply with the forfeiture regulations. These types of cases happen all the time and its pretty routine stuff, the only reason the government appealed I imagine was of the high profile nature of the case. I'd wager the coins end up with the family in the end with a successful motion to dismiss by the family's attorneys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8516 Posts |
They should tell the family that they're sorry but it looks like someone stole them again lol.
Give them 20 dollars per coin lol.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
Edited by 52Raymo
07/04/2015 7:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
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the appeals court that held the coins should go back to the family did so because the government failed to comply with the forfeiture regulations. It is not a question of obeying the forfeiture laws, it is a question of whether the forfeiture laws apply here at all. You are not required to apply for forfeiture to get your own property back. How could the Langbords be required to "forfeit" property the civil court ruled was never theirs to begin with. My bet is that the coins are returned to the Gov't in the end. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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You are not required to apply for forfeiture to get your own property back. How could the Langbords be required to "forfeit" property the civil court ruled was never theirs to begin with. Temporal problems there, at the time the forfeiture reply was needed it had NOT been determined that the coins WERE the property of the government. So it would have to be assumed (at that time) that the coins might actually belong to the Langbords. The Langbord's lawyers filed an appeal of the governments seizure and the government HAD to reply to that filing. They didn't so the law says they lost. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
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Do they even know how he obtained them? HE BOUGHT THEM. He is not the real thief.
Israel Switt was a known gold fence, not just your typical jewelry merchant. Quote:
Wouldn't the statute of limitations come into play at that point? SoL only applies to the filing of criminal charges but stolen property is always forfeit. Quote:
When the Saddle Ridge Hoard was found, the government didn't try to confiscate the coins, even though the coins were very likely stolen or acquired through illegitimate means.
The matter was thoroughly researched and the hoard did not match the haul from any thefts from that time period. The coins were also placed in the containers in rough sequential date order from bottom to top so it was most likely a hoard accumulated over decades. Quote:
The "only" '33 double eagle was allowed to go to auction despite being stolen as well
The King Farouk specimen was granted an export license in the 1940s, that is the only thing that saved it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
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Temporal problems there, at the time the forfeiture reply was needed it had NOT been determined that the coins WERE the property of the government. And therein lies the basis of this appeal, which will make this case very interesting to follow. The civil court didn't "determine" that these were stolen, they "confirmed' that these were stolen. The U.S. Government declared any and all 1933 Double Eagles, as stolen in 1944. They then empowered the Secret Service to track down and recover them. They estimated twenty were outstanding and they recovered ten of them. These coins were deemed stolen long before the civil courts became involved and the Secret Service has been searching for them ever since.. One justice agreed with the family lawyers and one justice agreed with the government's contention. One lone justice swayed the vote on his interpretation of the technicalities of the law. Did anyone really think the government was going to let the family of a know theif get away with $80 mil. on the opinion of one single appeals court justice? Hello SCOTUS? Interesting indeed. |
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Moderator
 United States
187950 Posts |
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Did anyone really think the government was going to let the family of a know theif get away with $80 mil. on the opinion of one single appeals court justice? Hello SCOTUS? This. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
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The "only" '33 double eagle was allowed to go to auction despite being stolen as well--the owner just had to pay the US government $20. Not quite. The owner was ordered to auction it, half of the final amount went to the government, plus a $20 monetization fee was tacked onto the winning bid amount (that additionally went to the government). However, where this is concerned, even if it went to the Supreme Court, the GOVERNMENT is in possession of the coins. There's your mistake. Letting the government take possession of them in the first place. Even if the Supreme Court would vote that due to the government failing to follow the rules of the court, the coins are to go back to the owners, there's NOTHING that can make the government actually do it. The government has an army and a police force. We common citizens don't. The government can do whatever it wants, regardless of the law. Simple as that. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Even if the family ends up with the coins the government will still make millions of dollars through their sale. Firstly the family would likely get at a minimum some $30 to $40 million (being conservative) in total for the coins. Given the top tax bracket for long term capital gains on collectables is 28% thats $8.4 to $11.4 in taxes the family will owe. Then I'm sure the lawyers involved are working on a mostly contingency fee basis, so if they get 20% of the take from the family that will be taxed as income (the rate depends how the firm is set up) in addition to the taxes the auction house will owe on its profits. I think its safe to say that the government will make $10 million if they lose the case.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,955 |
Posted 07/03/2015 3:53 pm
