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Fake 1804 Large Cent

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OldSkoolMadSkilz's Avatar
United States
2077 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  2:58 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add OldSkoolMadSkilz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
http://cgi.ebay.com/301685150912

Looks like an 1801 S-213 retooled into an 1804. It's an old alteration. I contacted the seller and they said "thank you", but still have it listed. Lots of bids.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There certainly appears to be an "excavation" area around the last digit where metal might have been removed.
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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm really not sure on that one. Smallsword is usually very reliable. I can't make out the 4 in the date to be conclusive, even though it does show surrounding metal pull.
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
United States
6478 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gees, they dug a mine into that thing. Reported.
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OldSkoolMadSkilz's Avatar
United States
2077 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OldSkoolMadSkilz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm really not sure on that one.
From the obverse it's hard to tell. The 4 isn't quite right, but that could be from retooling. Flip it over and it's clearly not an 1804 reverse. Look where OF is positioned relative to the leaves. Way off. It almost had me fooled.
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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very Good Point OldSkoolMadSkilz. I didn't take the time to look it over too carefully, simply because I find I have a hard time with varieties on coins that have that much circulation. But now that you've pointed out the OF position, that is obviously NOT an 1804 reverse. Thanks for taking the time to point that out.
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kakaratt77's Avatar
United States
1414 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kakaratt77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Reported as well.
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Scropper's Avatar
United States
702 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scropper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nicely spotted OldSkoolMadSkilz!
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  7:27 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1801

Nice catch.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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861 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add g048406 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent spot OldSkoolMadSkilz. Someone went to alot of trouble to alter that digit. Clearly not an 1804 cent.
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
still up, reported
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
LOL @ the mismatched reverse. I think they were hoping the general state of wear would mask the alteration on the obverse or that it'd be confused with pitting or porosity but it's too obvious.

This is why I only buy expensive coins in slabs. A shame it has to be that way, but there are too many fakes and/or ignorant or outright dishonest sellers out there if you can't see the coin in person.

Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Valued Member
United States
94 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  11:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grr601 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the seller is reputable, and several people have pointed out the problems, why is it still listed? I'm no expert, but I can see the issues when they are pointed out to me.
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SjlundCoin's Avatar
United States
534 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  11:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SjlundCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Reported
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably altered from an 1803 not an 1801. Haven't tried to determine the variety but it has a large fraction reverse so it can't be an 1801. The large fraction was only used in 03, 04, and 07. After a quick look it looks like the reverse of 1807 S-275 and 276. The position of the point of leaf nearly below the center of the O in OF quickly eliminates all the large fraction reverses except 1803 S-265 and 1807 S-275/276 (same rev die for those two). S-265 has a pointed 1 in the date and this coin doesn't, that matches the 1807's. It looks like LIBERTY is very close to the bust so it is probably S-276.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@grr601: ebay is notorious for having very different standards depending on how much revenue a seller generates (for ebay, not for the seller.) The fact that the seller is reputable actually makes it harder to get violation items removed!

Usually they'll get delisted eventually, but sellers with that sort of feedback usually require quite a bit of complaining to get their listings removed vs. small low feedback sellers of low value items.

This is why a private seller who lists a fake Brand X handbag as their only item on a sub 100 feedback will get near immediate banhammer on a single report, but a 7k feedback 99.9% 5 star seller with 100 of them listed will usually need a large amount of reports to get their auctions/BINs delisted.

Note: to keep this from being too one-sided: there are many sellers who may be legitimately unaware that they're doing something wrong, especially if it's something they don't usually sell, or if it's convincingly real enough to pass as real with the uninformed. If the seller relists items that get delisted, that's almost always a dead giveaway that they know exactly what they're doing, but sometimes, finding out something is a fake or altered can be just as much of a shock to the seller as it is to the bidder!
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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