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Multi Struck Canadian Cent

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All that proves is that there are two people in this thread - you and Strach-Man - who haven't seen hundreds of these fake "errors" before, instead of just you.

This thread is becoming a high-quality teaching tool. Please, keep denying reality. It's fun to watch.
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24177 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
thanks I try just put it on to see what would be said never expected to see so many violent reactions and accusations.


You are GROSSLY overreacting. People are disagreeing with you and you are taking it personally. It's as simple as that.
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24177 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's please refrain from piling on and repeating what has already been said. Constructive responses only from here on out. Others will be removed.
New Member
United States
46 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add StrangeCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
bobby131313, again Thank-you, I do understand that there are thousands of fakes out there. But as I originally asked could anyone on here tell me why this would not happen in the mint.
By the way thanks Paulsz some have referred me to getting it graded by CCCS I was originally going to send it to PCGS because I am from the US but I would much prefer sending it to a Canadian Grading service due to where it's from But when I did a search for ICCS I came up without any answers, I went back and noticed you had written CCCS and found it right away.
Edited by StrangeCoins
08/10/2015 12:32 pm
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Canada
9866 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Send it to NGC or PCGS. ICCS does not certify errors and a CCCS opinion of a coin like this means nothing in the marketplace.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Send it to NGC or PCGS. ICCS does not certify errors and a CCCS opinion of a coin like this means nothing in the marketplace.


I had not seen that you were from the US, which is why I said CCCS. Because it's cheaper and all you're trying to do here is certify it. But PCGS or NGC would probably be an overall better choice
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24177 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The first stop for the coin, without question in my opinion, should be Mike Diamond's desk if he's willing to look at it in hand.
New Member
United States
46 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add StrangeCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks DBM, did not know that NGC was that highly respected on Canadian Coin Errors, was not that sure.
I see we have the same thing going on here with sports and memorabilia with the different Grading Companies.
Even lawsuits going between them, It's calmed down in the last five years but was brutal for awhile online.
Selling prints, which I avoided due to so many fakes and signed baseball pieces, it was brutal.
I live near the Baseball Hall of Fame.
By the way if anyone would like hi-res files 5.4mb to 5.5mb with other shots of this coin I would gladly send the over. I find the 200K or less files hard to view.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
. But as I originally asked could anyone on here tell me why this would not happen in the mint.


A fair question, which I'll answer with a question of my own: How does a coin receive so many multiple strikes, including positive and negative strikes, without the collar disengaging? The rim is complete. Did someone stop the press and remove the collar during these multiple strikes? It's the only way for a complete rim to be distorted after the initial strike.

Go back over how the strike process happens. If you can see that process clearly, you will understand why this cannot happen at the Mint. It's that simple and intuitive, even if you don't know the mechanism by which this coin was actually created, as we do.

I'm sorry you feel persecuted, and agree that some members have been too harsh with you. We won't be forgetting that. But, you are denying both knowledge-based logic and the opinions of the country's foremost experts to stick to an opinion which amounts to a physical impossibility. It's tough to converse with someone who is denying reality.
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Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The main issue here I believe is that as an error coin to be considered legitimate is that there be no potential for this to have been fabricated away from the mint.
Could this have been actually minted? Possibly With manipulation by a mint employee it is possible they were playing one day in 1943. Probable? No! Can this coin be manufactured in a garage/workshop? Yes. The use of soft dies and an earlier penny. If a coin CAN be home made it will be considered fabricated not an actual error. I wrote an article for CCN debunking the beliefs and statements of the "errorman" about similar coins. This coin in my opinion does have a very remote possibility of being legitimate. That said, unfortunately due to the FACT that it can be made away from the mint puts it automatically in the classification of a Fabrication. That is polite as I can be.
Edited by nickelsguy
08/10/2015 1:10 pm
New Member
United States
46 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add StrangeCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks nickels guy, SsuperDdave , honest answers finally, I do understand this concept that is why it is going to be certified and as Iv'e pointed out from the beginning Due to the many weird error's on the coin why I'm getting it checked, but to not have it checked an wave it off as a fake, I believe would be a grave error in itself. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place due to the provenance of the coin I have no choice, it being put away for so many years lends credence to it being real. As with the baseball cards and fake artist prints showing up in the last 40 years because of there popularity. Canadian Coins were not at all to popular till recently and yes I do know babe ruth's signature was copied before the 80s and a few others but not the flood that came in the 80s, again US coins were mostly the issue.
The coin was put on here to get all opinions.
Again Thanks
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is one of the problems you are having here, you think this is all based on "opinions" and you could not be more wrong. Numismatics is based on hard facts derived from known minting production techniques, not guesswork, which is what opinions tend to be.
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United States
46 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add StrangeCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
biokemist6, Thanks again exactly the point because if the minting process went exactly the way it was supposed to and the employee did exactly what they were supposed to there would be no error's, As with the 1943 copper coin it is only opinion that keeps that going, the famous 1913 nickels also, all opinion. That's why I would like to see a book done by the actual mint employees who ran the machines and I do understand again it would be yet again opinions but it would be opinions of people who actually saw it happen.
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Strach-Man's Avatar
Canada
491 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Strach-Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SsuperDdave you missed my point in my 25 years of collecting to solely judge a coin by a picture alone if it's fake or real ,one must ask how many real errors have slip through your fingers over the years because of picture's?. SPP with all his knowledge still on occasion will ask the coin to be sent to him, because a coin in hand is sure better then a 1000 pictures. Yes some fakes are easy to spot and other that have shown up on the form that have been called fakes have come back as true errors over the year's, The point I made was how can anyone judge with 100% accuracy if this coin is truly a fake just on a picture alone, send it in for grading and WE WILL SEE if you still don't get it, I'm not saying yes or no I'm undecided on the coin,
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24177 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2015  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place due to the provenance of the coin I have no choice, it being put away for so many years lends credence to it being real.


I don't understand why you keep saying this. People have been deceitful as long as there's been people and all the tools needed to do this at home were available. The fact that it's been put away so long really doesn't mean a thing.
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