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 Replies: 55 / Views: 4,820 |
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Valued Member
United States
177 Posts |
Quote:
Cf. 18 U.S. 25.485 (Whoever passes, utters, publishes, sells, possesses, or brings into the United States any false, forged, or counterfeit coin or bar, knowing the same to be false, forged, or counterfeit, with intent to defraud...), emphasis added. Someone who is a hapless ebay victim who thought he was bidding on a genuine coin/bill, would be exempt from prosecution because of the highlighted phrase. If a buyer did not know an item was "false, forged, or counterfeit," this law doesn't apply - he would be considered a victim of a counterfeiting crime. Now, what about someone who knowingly buys counterfeit coins/currency with the intent to educate himself and others in how to recognize counterfeits? The intent is NOT to defraud - the intent is to help prevent himself and others from BEING defrauded. I would think this would exempt a person under the statute as well. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Correct, Aahz. This was intended to illustrate that it is NOT, in fact, unlawful to merely be in possession of counterfeits (whether that's paper, coins, bars, stock, whatever), the infraction occurs when there is an intent to defraud. Mr. Arthur seems to have been under the impression that it was unlawful merely to possess the items, this is clearly not the case. However, I will say that it's up to whomever is interpreting the law to decide if you had "intent to defraud" or not. Actions such as offering the coins for sale on ebay are clear evidence of intent to defraud, but there are more grey areas, such as someone who is not aware the coin they are about to list is a forgery -- did they "intend" to defraud, or are they defrauding without intent? Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Forum Dad
 United States
24173 Posts |
Quote:Actions such as offering the coins for sale on ebay are clear evidence of intent to defraud Nope. If you truly believe it's real, then it's not fraud. |
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Valued Member
United States
177 Posts |
Boy, that would be hard to prove. A regular ebay counterfeit dealer finally gets busted, but says, "Hey! I didn't know they were counterfeit! I thought I was selling real coins." Innocent until proven guilty - prosecutors would have to prove both knowledge and intent. Now, if he's also a regular customer of the "no-no" site, that might prove the knowledge part. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Bobby, I agree with you, on second thought. It would be hard to prove that the seller knew the items were bogus.
Now, if they get delisted for forgery reports, and the seller relists them, might that change the situation?
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Forum Dad
United States
24173 Posts |
I would say that could be incriminating somewhat.
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Valued Member
57 Posts |
Quote:
False, completely false. Mere possession of counterfeit money
can get you up to 20 years. They look to intent, did you know
it was counterfeit.
I'm getting off this site you people are a lost cause. I said they look to intent, intent includes purpose. Look it up, legal definition. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4932 Posts |
Quote:
Look it up, legal definition. Will do, fellow attorney friend :) |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I wanted to be an attorney when I was a kid. But then I saw that my mom was working 60-70 or more hours a week and hardly ever home. So despite having taken a lot of legal-related study, I decided that I didn't want that kind of a job and abandoned it for a career in retail management and accounting. Of course, nowadays in my current job I work 60-70 hours a week, but for far less money than I would have made as an attorney, and I'm still hardly ever home.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4932 Posts |
This is incredible. I really thought it was primarily silver dollars they were counterfeiting. Onto IHC's, really? http://www.ebay.com/sch/xiguobu/m.h...047675.l2562If they were GOOD counterfeiters, they'd get the date right & the composition for the 1859-1864 cents, including the 1864 transition. |
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Replies: 55 / Views: 4,820 |
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Posted 08/14/2015 7:24 pm
