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Old Indian Coin Authenticity, Identification

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United States
9 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2015  10:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mit_p_794 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all,
I have a gold coin which looks like it's from the kushan empire, vasudeva I. Supposedly from 200AD.
How do I check its authenticity and what is it's exact description? I.e. Denomination etc.

Also if there's a good resource for finding out the value of these, that would be great.

Thanks in advance!

Old-Indian-Coin-Authenticity,-Identification

Old-Indian-Coin-Authenticity,-Identification
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chrsmat71's Avatar
United States
4971 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2015  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
gold is out of my league, but i'll be watching this with interest.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2015  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't say I like the looks of it but size and weight might be somewhere to start. Better photo's with the coin turned the correct way up would also be helpful.

Archimedes was asked whether a crown was real once, and came up with a theory about water displacement and specific gravity (weighing something both in and out of water and comparing measurements) This is a good way to test the density of metals without having to harm them with an acid test. Hard to tell from a photo but I am not convinced that this coin is real gold.

Here are a couple of reasons I doubt it.

1. The colour (though maybe the photo is changing that a bit)
2. The way the light is reflecting on the surfaces somehow looks wrong, like a guilded piece might.
3. Gold is very soft and this is supposedly old. I would expect the rims to be softer edges rather than really sharp.

Of course I may be wrong, someone more knowledgeable than I might comment on the type (which I am unfamiliar with)
Edited by DavidUK
09/16/2015 11:32 am
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2015  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin appears to be an AV Stater of the Kushan King Vasu Deva I 192-225 AD. It looks genuine to me. It's not really Indian but is from an Eastern empire the centered in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Old-Indian-Coin-Authenticity,-Identification

Old-Indian-Coin-Authenticity,-Identification

Better pictures.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2015  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mit_p_794 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's 7.8g,
Definitely real gold as it's been tested with an xray gun.
I don't think the lighting does it any favours but I'll post additional pics shortly.

I guess my main concern Is if it's a recreation?
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2015  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Depending on how accurate your scale is, the weight of your coin is within the range of what it should be. The size of the coin should be about 21mm. There is one small area on your coin that looks a bit odd and that the discoloration on the lower left on the obverse. Other than that the coin appears to be genuine to me.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2015  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know the type, and like I say it is hard to judge from a photo what material something is made of... if Echenzo says it looks OK then that's good enough for me. Maybe the photo does it no favours... if it has been tested then my concerns are unfounded.

Is the discolouration actuallyy discoloured or does it just look like it where its taken a bash and is in shadow (looks like the legend and the edge are angled from a knock)



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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2015  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's a coin at CNG that looks like a possible obverse die match: http://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=149997
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2015  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The obverse style looks a little 'iffy' to me, but I will freely admit that I may be wrong, because I am not an expert with these.

What were the details for trace metals when testing with XRF?

The Kushans could not refine gold as well as in current times, and so there should be some trace elements detected if genuine. It is quite common for fake gold coins to be made in good gold, but of modern 'pure' alloy, with only copper or silver in the alloy.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2015  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mit_p_794 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the other pictures. I don't have the xrf machine with me but will try to use it in the next day or so.
It's between 21 and 23mm in diameter (slightly oval shaped).

Part of me also feels as though the details on the coin are a little 'iffy' but it generally does seem ok based on the feedback above.


Old-Indian-Coin-Authenticity,-Identification

Old-Indian-Coin-Authenticity,-Identification
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2015  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I still say the coin look fine, though polished and perhaps a bit tooled.
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Numisma's Avatar
United States
4963 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2015  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I definitely agree that it looks polished.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2015  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This polishing is probably what made me say "the surface looks odd like its guilded" I would expect a slightly rougher surface with an old coin.

Does the xrf machine know the difference between plated/clad and solid gold? I have only ever tested with acid (no good for this task because you must break the surface first) do you have to break the surface with the laser test? Judging from the weight it all seems likely to be OK but I just ask out of curiosity.

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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2015  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a side-by-side of the obverses of the posted coin with the CNG coin that I linked too. If this is not a die match, it's very close and similar - which would suggest to me that the style of the posted coin is fine.

Old-Indian-Coin-Authenticity,-Identification
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2015  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mit_p_794 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
here's the xrf analyser for those that were interested.

Thanks for the input above!

Old-Indian-Coin-Authenticity,-Identification
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