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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,674 |
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
The weight is 26.86g. Can't find images of the edge anymore, sadly, but I remember there being a break in the edging. A rectangular raised break that appeared to have stopped the edging. Can't take another image of it because it's currently in an NGC holder. At a first glance it looks like an early Guadalajara strike on a cast planchet with a brockage and a multiple strike. But then if it's a simple brockage, why is the 8R mirrored? What about the raised line running across Ferdinand's face? How would a pretty well protected area of the die get a line like that? There are also small raised parallel lines on the bust, as well. How would those be created? Surely not by polishing the inside of the die? Also, the planchet appears to have some foreign yellow metal in it, as can be seen by a discoloration at 12 o'clock. Would love to hear your thoughts on this one, folks.   Edited by TwoKopeiki
09/30/2015 9:29 pm
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Forum Dad
 United States
24167 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 Czech Republic
803 Posts |
Thanks, Bobby. I've been reading the boards, but have not been too active in my coin collecting or research to post anything new.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
Hi Roman, that's a very interesting War of Independence issue. I wish I could help unravel the mystery but I'll just have to wait for others with a better understanding of the milling and minting process to chime in.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Unquestionably not cast on a die emmission product which has experienced coming from a combination of worn dies and die clashing. Not a brockage or any sort of error for this type. If you look at SPAN in HISPAN it appears like surface silvering which is peeled off over a debased host (i.e., GNL Class 1) but its not IMO with this weight and everything else that is going on here. It looks like a good silver host and a legitimate regal and its probably just the photogrpahy. A piece worthy of free XRF analysis but its too late - its entombed in a TPG. John Lorenzo Numismatist United States |
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
John, I almost cracked it out last night just to take pictures of the edge, so it's not a problem. XRF would also help figure out what the foreign metal is. Let me know how I can get it to you via a private message.
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
I was thinking more about the outline of the "8R" in the field and the only way I can see that happening is if was laying on top of another coin when it was struck and the design of that coin was impressed onto the planchet. But I think I also see some ghosting on the reverse and if the design came from another coin, would mean that a planchet was struck in a stack? What kind of crazy minting practice is this?
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
I love the WOI serie for this, you always have surprising things like that :)
This is a superb coins, looks like one of the 1813 portraits . mine is clearly not as sharp, it's an impressive specimen - with that superb error.
Which grade did they gave it ? (this is a high MS to me .)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Well I PM you on my address but IMO leave it alone in the slab and just put a tag on it - poor die striking from worn dies and clashed dies. Obviously = RARE. But if you want to confirm its 90% Ag status. Proceed ... I see alot of this in U.S. Colonials from POOR manufacturing operations on many series particularly British halfpence copper counterfeits of GII/III ... rare in this Mex realm due to state of the art manufacturing other than in WOI periods ... but I only been in WOI for 5 years ... how common is this? Not very common from a 5 year view ...
Whatever ...
JPL
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
Sounds good, John. Got your note and let you know if / when I will send it out. Would the XRF be able to tell the composition of the foreign metal in the planchet? There appears to be a glob of some yellowish metal at 12 o'clock. In terms of rarity - I have collected W4I for almost 10 years before I switched focus and I have never seen this combination of errors together on an authentic issue.
Mathieu - the coin doesn't have any luster. NGC gave it an XF-something grade. I knew they didn't know what to look for when grading W4I coins, so wasn't worried about what the grade said. Just wanted to protect it for storage, since I knew I was going to move multiple times afterwards.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Interesting piece... very much 1813 Guadalajara by its typically crudeness(es).
Almost looks on the obverse like the dies clashed twice - or there was some "die bounce" when it did? Out of curiosity, did a quick glance on ACsearch and found just one other piece w/obvious die clash:
acsearch.info/search.html?id=933266
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Yes - no problem but the XRF and SEM is old and accuracy is only to 1% so no gold content as a contributor to it being regal as in GNL. But the metals over 1% will be able to be analyzed to determine regal or otherwise (i.e., if its debased Ag say with iron to keep the weight at regal, etc.).
JPL
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Valued Member
China
106 Posts |
awesome Guadalajara 8R coin.Very nice!
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,674 |
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Posted 09/30/2015 9:41 pm
