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 Replies: 29 / Views: 4,580 |
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New Member
Canada
17 Posts |
Hello, I have a question regarding creating coins resembling Canadian pennies. With all the plating & colourizing of RCM, U.S. Mint and different types of legal tendered coins going on, can I have a U.S. private mint create a 2013, 2014, 2015 etc. Canadian penny? I know I can not use the RCM logo, though a standard "P" works just as well. The queen's portrait is the main issue. It seems all these other plated, gilded & replica's still use her, so is it legal? The coins would be more of a novelty item and not used for actual currency. Thanks for any information. Also with regards to "coins" made out of glass and laser etched crystal blanks, which I'm currently working on for 2012 pennies. Edited by Cu Lung
10/22/2015 05:41 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5588 Posts |
I think that you need a legal opinion from the Canadian gov't, not a public answer on a discussion board but maybe someone knows something that will help.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
first off, I think you have 2 totally different products you are trying describe, and melding them into one thing. First off, there is a 3rd party company in Germany who create colored versions of the ASE, and the SML, however this company is buying these coins from the respective mints, and then modifying them. There is ZERO infringement here. Secondly you are (I think) talking about people producing fake coins out of asia, and reproducing the queens effigy. This is 100% illegal. if you are worried about the issues with the queens effigy, then hire an artist to draw a new image, then you own it, and there is no problem. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
if you are worried about the issues with the queens effigy, then hire an artist to draw a new image, then you own it, and there is no problem.
 A county's legislated right to issue domestic currency is legally protected far beyond simple copyright or trademark laws. I agree with okiecoiner, this forum is not the appropriate venue for obtaining legal advice. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
there are tons of "Fantasy" Coins out there, this is what the OP is talking about. even ones with kings on them. I am not suggesting that I know all things about producing coins, or currency. If the op creates his own effigy, and his own leaf pattern, there is nothing wrong, if he tries and pass them off as pennies then there is.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
But a "2013, 2014, 2015 etc. Canadian penny" would obviously bear a distinct denomination and country. I may be wrong, but I'm presuming the OP is interested in the production of a coin that carries on the tradition of our extinct 1c coin.
Do you think Fantasy Coin makers even file copywrite to protect their work. I doubt it - obviously it would require approval of the Country's coinage that is being replicated and that would never happen.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Without a doubt in Canada the RCM owns copyrights on all their production coins, as thus they are the party that has to start infringement actions againist counterfeiters which they seemly choose to ignore yet they stopped a band from using an image of a penny a few years ago. My understanding is you can't create a coin or medal with the queen or king's image without her permission. I always thought you could get someone in China to create a novel 2.013 kilo copper penny replica will sell like hotcakes at right price Just my opinion the German private mint colourizing maple leafs is defacing a Canadian coin, it mislead some collectors that they were official RCM products. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
513 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
214 Posts |
Under the RCM intellectual property guidlines it would appear that you cannot even use a photo of your RCM coin when selling it on ebay, without first asking for authorization and possibly paying a 1 to 2.5% commision? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
One can see the RCM using some common sense in private sales were it would cost 10.00 to collect 1.00 commission but the counterfeit issue defies logic. |
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Valued Member
United States
214 Posts |
Quote:One can see the RCM using some common sense If the RCM were to use common sense they would just grant the purchasers of their products a limited license to use images of the exact item that they purchased, which would be transferable to others (it would likely be a "fair use" of the product anyways). Creating a broad policy that is not enforced just opens the door to claims of acquiescence, latches and waiver when and if they do try to use it (e.g. Xerox's loss of the trademark for "Xerox" due to lack of enforcement). There are also Statutes of Limitations concerns (U.S. copyright law is 3 years from the time you knew or should have known of the violation). With the obvious sales of replicas and counterfeits going on, one has to wonder whether the RCM has licensed them, or is just totally inept at protecting their intellectual property rights. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The RCM also has the trump card of having Federal Canadian counterfeit laws to fall back on producing copies of coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
RCM does not hold intellectual property rights on a Canadian 2013, 2014 or 2015 1 cent coin since no such coin was ever minted, therefore neither would it be a copy or replica. Similarly, in 2000 the Bank of Canada announced the one thousand dollar bills would be withdrawn. So is the general consensus that any person can legally create a similar coin or bill that's been discontinued simply by filling a copyright on a new design, then commencing to sell it? Because if that's so please let me know where I can get that licence to manufacture and sell money! 
Edited by wildflowerAB
10/22/2015 6:05 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
It is illegal to use the monarch's image without being expressly specifically granted by the Monarch. That permission is usually granted through national government protocols. The same should also apply for all private individuals: would YOU want your image to be used commercially without your YOUR consent? Depends of the particular circumstance. Quite often, it is dificult or not worth bothering to police. If you are going use the RCM logo, ASK them! THEY own it! If you are going to make legal tender and circulate it, your intention is to be a counterfeiter, if you are intending to manufacture fantasy coins or replicas, make sure that is what they will be what they should perceived to be, otherwise it is fraud. Actually, I will buy fake coins to add to my 'black' collection provided that they are sold as fake coins, with no attempt to defraud. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
And only RCM is legally empowered to produce coin in accordance with the Royal Canadian Mint Act: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/R%2D9/Since none of us will ever be granted such authority, seems anyone who manufactures (or owns) what would be considered counterfeit Canadian coin is breaking the law. Whether or not the Govt of Canada is inclined to prosecute is another topic. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Engravers sign their initials on the coins/dies, so a straight copy is a big no. Bad form and possible federal case against you for counterfeiting (stealing from the "queen"). Now if you were to hand draw your own design, obverse and reverse, that in no way has the same lines then you're fine.
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Replies: 29 / Views: 4,580 |
Posted 10/22/2015 10:59 am
