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 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,941 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Hello all, I recently bought a lot of world coins that happened to contain a few "ancient" coins as well. The seller disclaimed clearly that these were most likely fake (the lot was an inherited collection), so I am not out much money either way. I am 99.97% sure that all of these are cast reproductions, but wanted to double check before consigning them all the the black cabinet. Coin 1:   Supposedly an AE 34mm of Ptolemaic Egypt. 26.75g. Edge:   Coin 2:   Persian or Parthian? AE, 28 x 25mm, 12.38g. Edge:  Looks okay there, but I don't like the surface details. Coin 3:   Don't recognize this one. Lots of bubbles on the surface. Edge:  Coin 4:   Alexander the Great? Looks like head of Heracles / Horse galloping. AE, 15mm, 3.76g. Coin 5:   Severan dynasty or Antonius Pius provincial? Deity seated/lounging on reverse. AE, 25mm, 9.65g Edge:  Like I said, I would be shocked if even a single one of these was not a cast fake, but wanted some confirmation before I just toss them in with the other phonies. Averaged out, I paid 25 cents for each coin in the lot. (Also, apologies for the photos... I rotated and cropped them in Photobucket, but it can take up to 24 hours to update on their servers. Should be fixed by tomorrow) |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
I think the only one that is fake is #3. The other seem to be OK but very harshly cleaned and polished.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
Which is exactly why I posted them here  My primary reason for doubting their authenticity was the obvious casting line on coin 3, the possible casting lines on coin 1, and the fact that the lot also contained five fake Chinese silver dollars. Guilt by association. Since there is a possibility that some of them could be genuine, I can start trying to attribute to assess more accurately. For the coins with no casting lines, are there any other tell-tale signs of a fake? These are either genuine but worn and cleaned, or casts of worn coins. At any rate, they are not meant to bring the big bucks, as that Ptolemy would be the only coin that would bring more than $25-50. |
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
I can't see anything that puts up any red flags. But it's difficult to say based on how harshly they were cleaned.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I don't see any tell tale signs of these being fake, either. But they are so badly corroded and cleaned, in most cases, it doesn't make a huge difference, I don't think.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Quote:
Persian or Parthian? Elymais, Uncertain Early Arsacid Kings, Van't Haaff type 10.4.1-1 Jury's still out on authenticity for this one as far as I'm concerned...I have concerns. Lightened image below:  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4973 Posts |
electrolysis? oh....the humanity.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
Number 3 is almost certainly a cast. The cast was made with 'dirty' silver. Either the silver was polluted by a dirty crucible or recycled castings were used resulting in the nasty pitting. When making casts the 'book' advises never use more than 50% recycled mixed with fresh.
The rest ? I concur that electrolysis was used.
Immediate gratification resulting in near total destruction !
The Ptolemy I doubt would fetch $20 unless you offer it for many years. As I collector I would think twice at $10.
Sorry for the bluntness but .......
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
Yes, all seem fine except 3 - I make that claim solely on the fabric and not the designs. 3# is a cast of a Nero tetradrachm - if you want an authentic one, in that state they can be had for less than $20.
I also share Rvfvs' opinion - that ptolemy probably is probably in the $10 range - they are very common (despite the strife in their range) and come in sizes much larger than that. I seem to remember a member owning one at around AE48.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Cleaned or not, a genuine coin is still better than a fake in my book. I still have my doubts about the Ptolemy... the edge just doesn't sit right with me.
Coins 4 and 5 I have no problem accepting as genuine, and I will have to do some research using the info Bob provided to reach a conclusion on coin 2.
Another query--is the dark color of the coins due to the cleaning process (olive oil, then electrolysis), or could it be an indication of a possible fake? I did not lighten the photos to give a more accurate idea of what these look like in hand.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Finn, my primary hesitation with the Elymaean coin is based on the rather odd rendition of the diadem ends. On this coin I see a wide, raised shape extending downward behind the king's head. I've never seen the diadem ends on these issues rendered as anything other than one or two narrow lines...here it's as if the space in-between them has filled in. Assuming my reading of the image is correct and that whole shape is in relief, then it's not a result of cleaning or wear - and it is at least unusual. However, perhaps it's nothing worthy of a red flag...I don't know.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
The large Ptolemaic bronzes were frequently "edged". Rasp marks or marks made by grinding wheels are fairly common. Whether it was purely for cosmetic reasons or to make adjustment to weight I am unsure. But I would say I am 99% sure it is genuine.
The color of these coins I believe is a result of the electrolysis. Bare metal will tarnish and darken in a fairly short amount of time. In fact I think I would actually advise taking these coins and burying them inside a flower pot for around one year ! In the spring sprinkle a bit of fertilizer that contains sulfur. This will help restore a more natural (ancient) look to them. They are not worth very much so I would not say doing this to them would in any way be 'cheating'.
The cheating already happened when they were cleaned by a very silly person !
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,941 |
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Posted 12/14/2015 4:35 pm
