Counterfeits In NGC, PCGS, ANACS, And ICG Holders

And what qualifies you as an expert?

The 1798 large cent and the 1803 Half Cent have been proven counterfeit, and it is likely some/many/all of the others in this group are counterfeit. I can't see the minute signs of counterfeiting from the photos supplied, but in hand I might be able to find the depressions and toolmarks indicative of the higher-quality counterfeits.

The best counterfeits are NOT the ones made in China and sold on the no-no site. Being able to consistently detect the US, European, and Middle Eastern counterfeits is a true qualifier of an expert.

I believe all of the coins in this thread, counterfeit or not, are of US origin. Look up "Bay Area" counterfeits and see what I mean. These were produced around San Fransisco. Most counterfeit gold is of Middle Eastern origin.

I never said that Chinese counterfeiters were incapable of producing highly deceptive counterfeits. I was just making a point that the cheap stuff on the no-no site is not the only threat out there.

Type I would agree the cheap stuff on the eastern ebay site really isn't a threat. It's easy enough to spot.

Given NGCs reaction which I suspect PCGS will follow this stuff isn't a massive threat either except for raw coins. NGCs statement leads me to believe they will repurchase all the mistakes to make it right. While that is an annoyance as long as they will make things right in the end when one slips through my confidence isn't shaken.

Now if the point comes where they say not my problem the market will drastically change.

"e-go-tech" and "kiki2010hy" are the same seller or getting counterfeit coins from the same source. Below are some coins that were submitted in the same batch to NGC that are sold by both "e-go-tech" and "kiki2010hy":

e-go cert #2463807-014 321936792310 kiki #2643807-008 321938833389

e-go cert #2792607-011 321936790938 kiki #2792707-006 321935861843

There are also coin submitted to PCGS in the same batch that were sold by both "e-go-tech" and "kiki2010hy".

New collector here. I've read Coin World, Numismatic News, Coinage, coin Prices, etc. Where do you find Coin Week? Shouldn't this info be published in CW and NN?

That certainly would change the market as well. Those types of coins are a way for a lot of people to get dates or a level of detail they couldn't otherwise afford.

To me as long as they stand behind what they do and make any mistakes right buying them back which it sounds like they are, they market shouldn't be affected much if at all.

Update the seller "kiki2010hy" had changed the ebay user ID to "happycoins2010" and happycoins2010 currently has no coins listed on ebay.

In my new book coming out in November 2016 I have a chapter on Chinese Counterfeit Modern Coins and their die transfer methods and detection. I have analyzed over 100 Chinese coins from the die transfer process and examined their alloys. They are typically Fe/Ni, German Silver (Cu/Zn/Ni) and debased silver alloys. HOWEVER - once they are in a PCGS/NGC/ANACS holder - GAME OVER - as hand held and XRF bench top devices can't extrapolate out the plastic interference's of the coin being in the holder.

However = In person these die transfer process are easy to spot IMO due to raised metal like air bubbles, their general off-appearance and/or raised small metal spots on the surface due to air bubbles and the difficulty of duplicating the AGE FACTOR of the third side.

As most of you know I am an expert in contemporary circulating counterfeits (i.e., genuine period counterfeits) and have collections in over ten U.S./Foreign series - but once in a TPG holder and buying on the Internet - its difficult if the coin mimics the coin in the TPG database.

At this point not even John Lorenzo and his Material Devices can help ... IMO. It seems the only time you can SPOT IT ... is when its TOO LATE ... when the coin is IN HAND.

As we all know there are no regulations to stop this at the SOURCE (i.e., in China).


John Lorenzo
Numismatist
United States