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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,664 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
This post is in response to another thread where swamperbob mentioned that he would contact ebay buyers to warn them of forgeries and that I had been contacted on two occasions, but only to warn me about the sellers, not about the specific coin that I had won. Here is one of those coins.     My main suspicions are the dull and flat appearance of the pillar side both in terms of luster and lack of relief in the design elements. And, although the edge shows two overlaps at 180 degrees it seems too worn compared with the surface condition. Edit: I should note that I purchased it raw -- you can tell by the photos that it's currently certified. Edited by jgenn
12/29/2015 12:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
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New Member
Spain
5 Posts |
Es difícil, que peso tiene? Yo veo demasiado desgaste en el canto en relación al resto de la moneda, además la gráfila no está bien definida. El grabado es correcto. aquí os dejo un catálogo online de columnarios, por si os es útil para ver variantes. Only 8 reales.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1156 Posts |
Quote:
que peso tiene? I cannot weigh the coin because it has been encapsulated by the grading company. It is my fault -- I should have weighed it before sending it for certification. As swamperbob has mentioned, the graders may not spend much time on authentication although I hope they would determine if the weight was within range. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
jgenn Sorry to say but not all graders actually weigh the coins before they are encapsulated. Years ago they NEVER weighed the coins. Today things are getting some better and some graders will weigh the coins. A very few I know have started checking SG as well. These are two tests that should be done on 100% of submissions. After all you usually pay $30 or so to have a coin authenticated (and graded  ). So if they are not checking weight and SG or alloy - what are you paying for? SG can be replaced by a hand held XRF in most cases so I see both as screening tools. I hope the day is coming when every coin is automatically weighed - the SG is calculated and an XRF surface reading is performed. That would eliminate (in combination with a visual review of surfaces and edge) over 99% of all counterfeits and forgeries. At that point, encapsulation might actually be worth something.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
Here is a similar piece. Same date and mint weighing 26.8 grams. Can't scan the edge, but it appears to be similarly worn as the above piece. Does it look like amodern forgery?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
jgenn I had avoided making my opinion known about your coin before. I did that because I have never made a die punch study of that series.
Now that a second 1769 has shown up I thought I should provide at least a tentative opinion on both.
First I am a bit surprised that your coin graded because I thought it was clearly cleaned (that dull flat appearance you refer to.) You didn't say if it was a details grade or not. I do lean toward the coin being genuine however. On my 20 point scale I would give it a 1 or 2 - so likely genuine.
The second 1769 lacks enough information to make a decision yet. I would like to see the edge overlaps before commenting further. The weight is OK - the SG should be checked.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
Thanks for your opinion swamperbob! The surfaces are free of hairlines from cleaning but it sure looks like the edge has been polished.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Here is another example, this one is from my chop mark set. Nice sharp strike, nice chops. Mid 60's through 1771 Mo pillars tend to be sharply struck on wide planchets so you usually have a good strike and a nice set of denticles all around the coin. These dates with a soft or mushy look should always be carefully examined. All of the previous shown coins look good in my eyes, but I find it so hard to determine a coins validity from a picture, I like to hold the coin and look at it.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
Nice examples, worldnumis and jfransch.
This was my first time trying to find and photograph the edge overlaps in an encapsulated holder. It looks like, barring back luck, the edge overlaps can be seen in NGC's 'edge-view' style holders.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Since the contact points on the slabs I have seen are at 180 degrees - you could be lucky or very unlucky. But if you see only 1 lap you are definitely in trouble - that is unless you collect counterfeits.
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,664 |
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Posted 12/29/2015 04:32 am
