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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,237 |
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Valued Member
United States
288 Posts |
Here is a proposition about a certain kind of mint error. What do we call a coin that appears to be a strike thru error but is actually a die variety caused by a die retaining debris that the hub then imprints and subsequently transfers to that die?
I have a quarter that appears to be a simple strike thru error coin but in the depths of the imprint is the shape of a perfect S from the original design on the hub. This can only happen if something has adhered to either the die or hub when they were being coupled. In effect it is a die variety. Imagine some sort of debris gets stuck to either of the mates, the hub or the die, and when pressed together, walla. Strike thru, and or, die variety? Both?
Lets say the debris is adhered to the die, the die strikes a few coins, and perhaps the debris then breaks away from the die. No more imprint impressed coins from that die. Of course it is possible that the debris stuck to the hub. If that were the case, the designs on the coin would be replicated from the hub onto the die and the die would replicate this duplicity upon many a struck coin. I would suppose that if this were the case, this variety would be a bit more common and already known.
To my knowledge, this kind of error is very rare and is currently known on only about a half dozen coins of any denomination. So, is it a strike thru. or a die variety?
50 years of collecting and still having fun. Imagine. Any comments? ...Gusp Edited by gusp
01/29/2008 11:37 am
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Valued Member
 United States
288 Posts |
Correction made. Maybe this reads a bit more clear. Thanx for help. G
Edited by gusp
01/29/2008 11:38 am
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Valued Member
United States
288 Posts |
Thanx for help everyone. Hopefully this is now clearer. G.
Edited by gusp
01/29/2008 11:39 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
The main different between an error and a variety is this: A variety is a hubbing error or punching error of a mint mark or an over date/over mint mark. Every coin struck from that die will show the exact same variety. Errors happen only once/several times, but not all the time. Die state can affect coins after they have clash/scratches/cracks/chips/breaks/cud/wear/die flow lines. These show ageing in different die states. That means after an event/as mentioned above, that leaves the coins made from that die showing wear/ageing. These are not varieties as they did not happen from the first strike. They are a normal part of a dies life. An error occurs any time during a dies life and may affect a few coins, but not all as a variety does. Errors are usually a one time. If you opened a roll and you found one clipped coin in it. Would you expect that all would be that way? Wrong planchet error Let say a Nickel struck on a Cent. Would all the ones in that roll be like that? Errors happen varieties are made first coin till the last. Hope this helps.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Editing posts. When I see your line on when/date/time line. You see some Icons there. Move your cursor over each one and you will be told what each one does. Click on that one that says edit and a screen will pop up. add/correct your message then spell check it and then submit. See if this helps.
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Forum Dad
 United States
24161 Posts |
Click on the  above your post and you can edit it.  |
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Valued Member
United States
288 Posts |
R.S.C. Thanx for post. Tried to clear up this somewhat complex post.
I am saying that the die had something stuck to it probably when it was brought back from the annealing oven. Perhaps a spot of metal or carbon. The hub then imprinted it's design onto the now extra metal or carbon bearing die. That die then struck a few coins and after striking a few pieces the extra debris probably came loose from the die. Subsequently, the next coins struck may be strike thru errors done by debris in the coining chamber. Once coining chamber debris is eliminated, the rest of the coins should show some weakness in the S area on the rest of the coins struck from that die. (Assuming that the debris in the coining chamber had by then been eliminated and did not mess up the die). So, the difference here is that the die contained the variety when made and created this strike thru looking coin. The die itself was altered. This did not happen as a function of the striking of the coin inside in the coining chamber. It probably happened when die was hubbed.
The difference is that there could be more coins just like this one if the metal adhering to the die lasted past one coin. Die variety. Neat Huh...Thanx again...G.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
The dies are hardened. Usually something doesn't damage a die. The planchets are softer and the coins are things left with the debrie. There are cases where the grease on the die will not allow the planchet to form in that area, but this is part of the error category. Not all coins would have the deformity.
Something to keep in mind is the way a die is made. There is a master bub that is made for the pattern for that year. The current coinage even includes the mint mark which is placed in it location with the master die. From the copy of the master dies hubs are formed. From the hubs there make many dies from the same hubs used that year. The dies are hardened and used for making coins. The first coins off the dies are the best coin ever made with that die. They have full strongest details that wear/scratches/cracks/chips/breaks that follow. Dies are like us. As we age different things happen to us. Most of the time these things may remain with us the rest of our lives. same way with dies. They make their best coins at first and situations happen that not all coins are created equal. The strike of the coin gets musher with each thousand coins made. A certain die may be used up in a few hours depending on how many coins it made. The coins are a means to an end. Even though collectors was the best coins, the procedure is for the ends of creating coins to be used. They are made for that purpose even though we prize them highly. So we give them the best care as we are enjoying them in the hobby we choose.
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Valued Member
138 Posts |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,237 |
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Posted 01/29/2008 02:57 am
